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naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2020, 6:08 pm

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why do people defend the abuse of Free Speech?


Why do people defend muzzling freedom of speech and thought? :scratch:


In the real world there have to be limits on free speech.

Take this woman quack doctor. Do you want your loved ones to take her medical advice on Facebook, or Utube?



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17 Dec 2020, 6:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If you call somebody the "N-word," that person has the "freedom" to punch you in the face. That's freedom of speech--with consequences!


More to the point.

You can call somebody the N word.

And the rest of us can call you a racist as*hole in response.

But then you cant complain that the rest of us are 'violating your freedom of speech' because we are all pillorying you for using the N word , because...the rest of us....also...have... freedom of speech. And are free to express our indignation.

When the government, or the private website, or whatever...lifts the restrictions on your "freedom of speech" it also lifts the protection of you from the free speech of others.


Political correctness is overdoing it specifically to advance a “progressive” agenda and replacing words with euphemisms that are less powerful then the original. An example of Political correctness is the wrong planet rule prohibiting the use of the actual word the “N-Word” is a euphemism for IN ANY CONTEXT. I have to write something like “During the 1970 riot the police were overheard saying “We have a” N-word “problem.”


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Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 6:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I just feel that the consequences have gotten out of hand, and people are being punished for having opinions or saying things that aren't even hate speech.
If you say things that make you seem like an as*hole people will treat you accordingly. That's not a violation of one's freedom of speech.
↑ THIS ↑

And this:
Image

xkcd #1357
by Randall Munroe


Note: The mouseover text reads: "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."


If the people who are in a position to ban are biased/unethical, that doesn't mean that the person who is shown the door is an A$$hole.
This concept is not rocket surgery. 8)


Insisting the cops/refs/whoever was unfair is a common complaint when one is facing consequences for their actions, it doesn't always mean those claims are true even if they are some of the time or hypothetically could be in some situation.

This concept also isn't rocket science. :wink:


True, though I'd say more often than not if discussing cops specifically such claims are probably true...at least here in the U.S, perhaps some places have better cops.


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17 Dec 2020, 6:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If you call somebody the "N-word," that person has the "freedom" to punch you in the face. That's freedom of speech--with consequences!


More to the point.

You can call somebody the N word.

And the rest of us can call you a racist as*hole in response.

But then you cant complain that the rest of us are 'violating your freedom of speech' because we are all pillorying you for using the N word , because...the rest of us....also...have... freedom of speech. And are free to express our indignation.

When the government, or the private website, or whatever...lifts the restrictions on your "freedom of speech" it also lifts the protection of you from the free speech of others.


Political correctness is overdoing it specifically to advance a “progressive” agenda and replacing words with euphemisms that are less powerful then the original. An example of Political correctness is the wrong planet rule prohibiting the use of the actual word the “N-Word” is a euphemism for IN ANY CONTEXT. I have to write something like “During the 1970 riot the police were overheard saying “We have a” N-word “problem.”


If you were directly quoting something from an article or something, I suspect it may be permitted not sure. But if you are paraphrasing there is no need to use that word. A better question is why would someone be bothered by not being allowed to use the n-word on here?


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17 Dec 2020, 6:22 pm

People who are bothered by not being able to use the n word, I sure hope it would be due to ignorance of the word.

There have been people using it in a non racist way and using it in a dictionary definition but once it would be brought to their attention about that history of the word and how it got used, they would be appalled and shocked.


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Sweetleaf
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17 Dec 2020, 6:29 pm

League_Girl wrote:
People who are bothered by not being able to use the n word, I sure hope it would be due to ignorance of the word.

There have been people using it in a non racist way and using it in a dictionary definition but once it would be brought to their attention about that history of the word and how it got used, they would be appalled and shocked.


I don't think there is a non racist way to use it, anyone claiming ignorance of it being a racist term is most likely to be a troll.


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naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2020, 6:33 pm

In my experience: I just go ahead and use the N word on this site, and it comes up automatically "bleeped out" by typographic symbols.

Testing: Removed by moderator

Works!

I am ok with a site that allows the N word, and I am ok with one that forbids it.

Forbidding the N-word supports an anti-racist agenda. Not necessarily a "progressive agenda".

I am not feeling that feeling of indigination you have towards Alex for censoring it.



Last edited by Feyokien on 17 Dec 2020, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.: deeply offensive term

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17 Dec 2020, 6:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
And this:
Image

xkcd #1357
by Randall Munroe


Note: The mouseover text reads: "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."


Ah, xkcd. As clever and funny as The Big Bang Theory.


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17 Dec 2020, 6:38 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
In my experience: I just go ahead and use the N word on this site, and it comes up automatically "bleeped out" by typographic symbols.

Testing: Removed by moderator

Works!

I am ok with a site that allows the N word, and I am ok with one that forbids it.

Forbidding the N-word supports an anti-racist agenda. Not necessarily a "progressive agenda".

I am not feeling that feeling of indigination you have towards Alex for censoring it.


So if posting a direct quote where the word is used, it would still be censored but not changed to n-word. I see no problem with that. Also though I'd figure a progressive agenda would be the best kind...isn't progress a good thing?


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naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2020, 7:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
In my experience: I just go ahead and use the N word on this site, and it comes up automatically "bleeped out" by typographic symbols.

Testing: Removed by moderator

Works!

I am ok with a site that allows the N word, and I am ok with one that forbids it.

Forbidding the N-word supports an anti-racist agenda. Not necessarily a "progressive agenda".

I am not feeling that feeling of indigination you have towards Alex for censoring it.


So if posting a direct quote where the word is used, it would still be censored but not changed to n-word. I see no problem with that. Also though I'd figure a progressive agenda would be the best kind...isn't progress a good thing?


"Progressive" means different things to different people.

But I and ASPartofMe were using the word in the partisan sense to mean "left of center", or "liberal", or "green party".

SOME conservatives oppose racism as much as do Liberal Dems. I am pretty sure.



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17 Dec 2020, 7:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
In my experience: I just go ahead and use the N word on this site, and it comes up automatically "bleeped out" by typographic symbols.

Testing: Removed by moderator

Works!

I am ok with a site that allows the N word, and I am ok with one that forbids it.

Forbidding the N-word supports an anti-racist agenda. Not necessarily a "progressive agenda".

I am not feeling that feeling of indigination you have towards Alex for censoring it.


So if posting a direct quote where the word is used, it would still be censored but not changed to n-word. I see no problem with that. Also though I'd figure a progressive agenda would be the best kind...isn't progress a good thing?


"Progressive" means different things to different people.

But I and ASPartofMe were using the word in the partisan sense to mean "left of center", or "liberal", or "green party".

SOME conservatives oppose racism as much as do Liberal Dems. I am pretty sure.


I know, and I think that is still progress.

Also, maybe personally they do, but they're too stubborn not to vote Republican and they largely don't do enough to condemn the racism of their more extreme counterparts. As we saw with that charlottesville thing many of them were just fine with standing shoulder to shoulder with white supremacists wielding tiki torches.


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17 Dec 2020, 7:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
If you were directly quoting something from an article or something, I suspect it may be permitted not sure. But if you are paraphrasing there is no need to use that word. A better question is why would someone be bothered by not being allowed to use the n-word on here?

Wrong Planet Rule:
Quote:
1. Posting racist slurs will not be tolerated (Deeply offensive terms like the N word in any context as well as referring to people with racist terms like "thugs," "monkeys," etc)

In any context seems pretty clear to me.

Why does it bother me not to be allowed to use the actual word?
I am autistic, I want to be literal about things.
Sometimes, more then sometimes in my opinion using the actual word is the more powerful way of describing something really bad.

In my youth I was often call anti semitic slur that starts with the letter k. I was also called “Jew” and a word that begins with the letter b. The actual word is a deeply offensive term like the N-Word. I was not called the “k-word” and would like to use the actual word precisely because I was offended.


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17 Dec 2020, 7:59 pm

 ! Feyokien wrote:
Let me clear this up. Do not type out the n-word in any context, the word if forbidden. The filter does not count, that is just an extra layer of security.



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17 Dec 2020, 8:08 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why do people defend the abuse of Free Speech?


Why do people defend muzzling freedom of speech and thought? :scratch:


In the real world there have to be limits on free speech.


I already mentioned that I agree that there should be limits to free speech.
The question is the context.
Some people use political correctness as a power trip.
I have a problem with that.



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17 Dec 2020, 8:15 pm

What limits of freedom of speech do you think there should be?



Pepe
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17 Dec 2020, 8:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I just feel that the consequences have gotten out of hand, and people are being punished for having opinions or saying things that aren't even hate speech.
If you say things that make you seem like an as*hole people will treat you accordingly. That's not a violation of one's freedom of speech.
↑ THIS ↑

And this:
Image

xkcd #1357
by Randall Munroe


Note: The mouseover text reads: "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."


If the people who are in a position to ban are biased/unethical, that doesn't mean that the person who is shown the door is an A$$hole.
This concept is not rocket surgery. 8)


Insisting the cops/refs/whoever was unfair is a common complaint when one is facing consequences for their actions, it doesn't always mean those claims are true even if they are some of the time or hypothetically could be in some situation.

This concept also isn't rocket science. :wink:


True, though I'd say more often than not if discussing cops specifically such claims are probably true...at least here in the U.S, perhaps some places have better cops.


Some people in a position of power abuse that position.
Not you, but some people seem to be fighting against this self-evident fact of life.
Some people have a devil's advocacy approach, or a need to follow a narrative, no matter what you say, which I find is not helpful. 8)