Should the government make vaccination compulsory?

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Yet they already do.. all kinds of drugs and things they tell us we can't ingest.. they require us to strap our bodies to cars with seat belts.. tell us we can't use our bodies to injure other people.. oh noes, it's tyranny up in he'e!!

I don’t think vaccines should even be mandated for school.

But then…I’m also against compulsory attendance. The problem is vaccines are require for school, and schools are required of everyone—although there are exceptions. So for most people it’s not possible to opt out of child vaccinations.

I'm not against vaccines. I hope everyone gets them. I just don't know where to draw the line between government and private lives. Some people are reclusive and don't even leave their homes. They aren't at risk and they aren't posing a risk. People can still have social distancing requirements and lockdowns if need be, plus many are working from home.

It's a complicated topic but just like I support pro-choice, I have to say no. I would never have an abortion but that's my choice and not the government's. I believe other women should have the right to choose yes (or no) without the government deciding on their behalf. Same with assisted suicide. I doubt I'd do it, but people should still have the right to choose.

Regarding your examples of drugs and seatbelts, the government can tell us what to do but those choices aren't permanent or irrevocable. They don't sew our mouths shut so we can't ingest poison. Likewise they don't pour it down our throats and insist we take it against our wishes. The government doesn't sew you into your car and leave you there. You can still choose not to wear a seatbelt. If you get hurt, that's on you. You can even be fined. Next time you might put your seatbelt on, or change your mind. With a mandated vaccine there's no changing your mind. It's permanent.

As to the "what about Polio?" arguments, I've never seen or heard of mild cases of Polio.

There are mild cases of Covid.

At the end of the day, it's a person's autonomous choice what to put in their body, especially if it's permanent.

Last edited by IsabellaLinton on 30 Dec 2021, 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

See PM to explain something.

I will try to find a few of the things I looked at. I have seen so many different things as when I get interested in something new I will go for days watching all I can find via the internet videos to try to get an understanding of the subjects... So I can't just give one example as an answer as I have seen so much that over half of it I will not know where to look. I will see what I can find to see what looks familiar.

This is one where he is talking about the splitting.

So then should they have to live, or die, with the consequences of their choice? Should we have to prioritize saving unvaccinated covid patients in hospitals while others' treatments and surgeries get delayed/cancelled? All because someone chose not to do the thing that prevents a preventable illness.

Me too. Both Covid vaccine and the vaccines you typically get as a kid. Vaccines not only save lives of the vaccinated but also lives of those who for health reasons can't get vaccinated, since vaccines make the population less inviting for the diseases they're against. So glad we live in a time of vaccine technology, we shouldn't allow the tinfoil hatters to ruin it for the rest of us.

until we hopefully get there one day, antivaxxers should not get medical treatment for any disease they have chosen not to be vaccinated against.

True but the way the media catastrophises it you'd think it is more deadly than the bubonic plague.
And then there's all this long covid people rabbit on about. Well, pregnancy usually causes lifelong damage to organs but nobody but me are afraid of getting pregnant.

I think that the media just adds a few zeros to every number of deaths and hospitalisations. That's convincing enough to freak everybody out and get vaccinated. It's fooled my boyfriend anyway. He's scared s**t of covid and did not hesitate for a second when getting his 3 vaccinations.

Usually the first thing leaders do to brainwash a whole nation of people is to instill fear into everybody.

But whatever you choose to do, whether you choose to get vaccinated or not, you will be fearmongered either way.
Getting vaccinated? You don't know what's in it, it was rushed, you'll probably die.
Not getting vaccinated? Covid is deadly to any age group not just the elderly, you'll probably die.

So either way, we're all gonna die.

I agree with you Goldfish, that the burden on hospitals and the potential risk to others is a concern. I still hope that all people will choose to vaccinate, remove themselves from public (staying home etc), or practise extremely safe social distancing and hygiene. People are still getting Covid and being hospitalised when they're fully vaccinated with three doses. Where I live the current numbers for hospitalised people are at 50% fully vaccinated, which is really scary. People are still dying when they're fully vaccinated (sorry, too tired to look up the numbers right now -- it's not a huge number but it's higher than I imagined).

I know it's a controversial topic and I'm glad I'm not in a position of power to have to make this decision regarding civil liberties. I've studied Bioethics and I see the risks for future legislation. Any such law becomes case law, thereby setting a precedent for future laws governing our personal rights and freedoms. Should women have the right to pro-choice? Should transgendered people have the right to sex reassignment? What about organ harvesting? What about freedom of religion pertaining to medical decisions? (e.g., some religions not believing in blood transfusions). Forced sterilisation? Assisted reproduction? Surrogacy? Animal research?

I know these topics are different from vaccination and might seem unrelated, but giving the court jurisdiction over our bodies and our choices is dangerous, in my opinion. I believe in human rights and individual sovereignty so far as it doesn't hurt other people. My hope of course is that unvaccinated people won't hurt others. Sadly there are many people who get vaccinated and become irresponsible by thinking the pandemic is over - I've seen such folly in superspreader events like that Astroworld concert, or the fact most Americans are going about their lives without masks or any accountability for other people's safety even though they can be carriers. People are still flying around the world and acting like idiots whether they're vaccinated or not.

At the end of the day, I hope all people start acting more responsibly.

Mandatory vaccination is medical rape. Let's just call it what it is.

It's very similar to taking away a biological woman's abortion rights.

Having no choice but to vaccinate is like having no choice of aborting a child.

Last edited by blitzkrieg on 31 Dec 2021, 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Maskless Americans - a very good friend, who is a Richmond Fire Captain and near retirement, was recently down in the USA and went to a baseball game.. stadium loaded, no masks. He figures they've got it figured out there - freedom not "communism," and says that people are all meant to die eventually, so live your lives and if some die of illness so be it that's the price of living kind of thing. He's definitely a self serving type (highly successful) and is one of those people who never gets sick, so of Course what's right for him (and doesn't inconvenience him) is what he figures is right for society and all of these mitigation measures are overblown blah blah.

Personally, I just don't get that mentality of Not Wanting to do what's best for your family, friends, neighbours, and strangers - elderly, immunocompromised etc. Probably also why I will never likely accumulate the financial wealth he has, either. But oh well, I'd rather live my life looking out for others than only myself - just the way I'm wired vs. the way he's wired.

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And it's because all people don't act responsibly that we have laws, rules, regulations, and mandates of all kinds.

In Aus, we're up to more than 90% of the eligible population being vaccinated, so the people refusing vaccines are a small minority.

Trying to 'force' these people to get vaccinated (for instance, as a job requirement) would do more societal harm than good, I believe, with the exception of front-line medical staff and aged care workers. And it seems morally wrong to me, to force a medical intervention on someone against their wishes. So I'm not in favour of mandatory vaccinations.

But there's nothing wrong with individual non-essential businesses (such as cinemas and pubs) allowing only vaccinated patrons, in my view. That alone may be sufficient to encourage high vaccination rates.

We had these discussions at work recently since we have a job ad posted. I made a call to worksafebc to discuss with a safety officer what their rules/regulations are, and also inquiries to some of our lawyers to see what we can/cannot require. Lawyer's said we're good to require covid vaccines for employees/prospective hires so long as we don't discriminate against people with disabilities that give them a medical exemption from the vaccine. Worksafe officer said we legally have an obligation to lookout for the health and well being of all of our employees, and thus in their eyes employers should require proof of vaccinations.

Stats show that vaccinated people are less likely to contract it, spread it, or have severe cases - so ideally everyone around people are vaccinated. Locally we're at 90-97% fully vaccinated (double I think they mean - I'm boosted already, personally.) for the various neighbourhoods of Vancouver. I live in the suburbs where my guess is that the vaccination rate is a bit lower, but not far behind. So most people are vaccinated.

Why should a cinema or pub be able to allow only vaccinated patrons ? (That's the law here btw, people have to show their digital vaccine passports.) but employers can't have the same rules about their employees in order to protect themselves and other employees' health ? Are new hires somehow less likely to cause covid outbreaks than patrons ? People are people - anyone could contract & spread covid. Why should their status as a patron vs. employee make any difference to who's allowed in the door ?

It's what I said about net societal harm.

From a health standpoint alone, it may seems like a double standard to allow only vaccinated patrons to a pub while a member of staff may be unvaccinated. As you say, the member of staff is no less likely to spread covid than a patron.

But the difference is from factoring in the respective harm caused to someone by denying them entry to a pub (an annoyance, let's say), to the harm of someone losing their job over their vaccination status (and potentially being unable to get another job and sliding into poverty). The latter harm outweighs the former, in my view.

What if the anti-vaxxers are at least partially right and the vaccine has long term side effects? Possible long term side effects that were modelled and actually appeared in some of the early animal trials include prion diseases like Alzheimer's and CJD. Because the vaxxed chose to get the vaccine, should we deny them treatment if they get those illnesses years down the line? Should we deny treatment to those young men keeling over with myocarditis or other cardiovascular disorders? That's even a side effect listed on the pamphlet before you get your shot. Their choice, own the consequences I guess?