Pastor Barnhart explains right-wing anti-abortion politics.

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Pepe
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08 May 2022, 1:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Many women are as vociferously pro-life as many men. No doubt about that!


Maternal instinct coming into play?



ironpony
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08 May 2022, 1:31 am

AngelRho wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But why would the government pass a law guaranteeing it when I thought they were trying to overturn roe, which is the worry?

Democrats are largely pro-abortion. If they had majorities in the house, senate, and a left-leaning SCOTUS with all the appeals courts, they could have easily passed laws guaranteeing women the right to abortion on demand without the headache of state laws forbidding it. Not everyone wants to overturn Roe. Not everyone wants abortion to be legal, either.

What you’re hearing about Roe is mostly fictitious hype. Nobody has yet to be denied any chance at an abortion. Texas is the closest to a full denial of abortion, but the law prohibits the state of Texas from enforcing it. This works by denying anyone challenging the constitutionality of the law the ability to sue any one entity for the right to an abortion. SCOTUS took one look at the law and asked “So what exactly do you expect us to do about it?” So you can get an abortion in Texas as long as someone is willing to perform it, but it’s a crap shoot if you think someone might sue you over it. The Mississippi law that started this mess doesn’t even deny anyone the right to an abortion. Trigger laws don’t prevent women from traveling out of state for abortions. And you can tell that lawmakers in California and New York fully intend to make their states safe havens for women seeking abortions.

Roe v Wade reversal by no means stops abortions. The only thing women have lost is the constitutional right to an abortion. Fun fact: Did you know that in the USA a public school education is NOT a protected, fundamental right? You are not constitutionally entitled to a public school education. It just happens that every state has a compulsory attendance law and nobody I’m aware of has challenged it. Another fun fact: All Americans have the constitutionally protected right to bear arms. NO American is legally obligated to carry guns.

So just because something is constitutionally protected doesn’t mean you are obligated to it, nor does something NOT being constitutionally protected mean that it’s against the law. Abortion is going to live to see many, many new days. Women who live in states that already allow near-unrestricted abortion on demand will experience absolutely no change in their lives whatsoever. Women in states that ban abortion will experience no change, either, because women who vote in those states aren’t the kinds of women who are going to want abortions, anyway. In Mississippi in 2017, there were
2,550 abortions. Of course, it’s likely women from Mississippi travelled outside Mississippi for abortions while many women from outside Mississippi travelled here to have it. An abortion ban in Mississippi won’t be nearly as interesting as it would be in other places.


But do we have a constitutional right to abortions now, or no?



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08 May 2022, 1:34 am

in june, the likely answer will be a big fat NO.



ironpony
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08 May 2022, 1:39 am

So if the constitutional right is taken away, then what? Will women still be able to get abortions as long as they explain the reasons for it, rather than it just being automatic?



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08 May 2022, 1:40 am

ironpony wrote:
So if the constitutional right is taken away, then what? Will women still be able to get abortions as long as they explain the reasons for it, rather than it just being automatic?

in the bible belt, no. in louisiana it is up for a vote in the general state legislature whether or not to charge women with capital murder who are found to have aborted their fetus.



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08 May 2022, 1:41 am

Oh okay, but why would a clinic perform the procedure, if it's going to possibly lead to a murder charge?



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08 May 2022, 1:42 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why would a clinic perform the procedure, if it's going to possibly lead to a murder charge?

there will be NO clinics when the bible belt gets its way after the ending of SCOTUS protection.



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08 May 2022, 1:43 am

But how will women need to worry about possibly murder charges then, if no there will be no clinics to do it?



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08 May 2022, 1:46 am

ironpony wrote:
But how will women need to worry about possibly murder charges then, if no there will be no clinics to do it?

RU-486 [drug compound of mifepristone and misoprostol] is a [potentially] self-administered abortifacient. or any miscarriage from any other physical or chemical insult to the fetus such as coat hanger or poison. or from having gotten an out-of-state abortion.



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08 May 2022, 1:49 am

Oh okay, but can the justice system look that hard to get real evidence though? I mean what would the police need, probable cause wise, to search a woman's uterus for evidence, if that makes sense?



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08 May 2022, 1:52 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but can the justice system look that hard to get real evidence though? I mean what would the police need, probable cause wise, to search a woman's uterus for evidence, if that makes sense?

texas set the precedent for heroic pursuits of liberated women receiving abortions, via officially sanctioned abuse of the legal tort process. there are financial incentives for folks to hire PIs to sniff the trail of such women wherever they go. they can go after their cell phone records and their private internet searches for evidence of googling abortion services.



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08 May 2022, 2:04 am

But are we talking about a murder investigation here, where the same rules of probable cause and chain of evidence of apply? What evidence do they use to get a court order, to get the cellphone records for example?



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08 May 2022, 2:33 am

ironpony wrote:
But are we talking about a murder investigation here, where the same rules of probable cause and chain of evidence of apply? What evidence do they use to get a court order, to get the cellphone records for example?

in texas they won't need any of that, due to their bounty law. the murder law is yet to be voted on in the louisiana legislature so the fine points of that are still up in the air.



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08 May 2022, 2:45 am

Oh I see. But if the law is not voted on, can the women face any consequences then, if investigated, since the law is not voted on as to whether it's murder or not, if I am processing that right?



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08 May 2022, 3:07 am

auntblabby wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why would a clinic perform the procedure, if it's going to possibly lead to a murder charge?

there will be NO clinics when the bible belt gets its way after the ending of SCOTUS protection.


A mass exodus out of the 16th century and into other states may be in order. 8)



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08 May 2022, 3:31 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. But if the law is not voted on, can the women face any consequences then, if investigated, since the law is not voted on as to whether it's murder or not, if I am processing that right?

WHEN the law is passed [and it will pass] THEN women CAN and WILL be charged with capital murder. curious law, women are to be discouraged from aborting their fetuses on pain of their own death. a life for a life. how backwards. it is already happening in a places like Guatemala, and in several bible belt states such as Oklahoma and Alabama.