Who killed Jesus? Some new ideas

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Actually defining them without judgement one way or the other was my goal.

Avoiding a judgement is logically equivalent to listing all possible judgements, which is what I done.

My purpose was to disprove r00bt33r’s statement that bibles are in a fiction section. When r00bt33r made that statement he assumed that religion is a form of fictiot, that’s why in his mind “religion section” translated into “fiction section”. So I told him no, religion is not a form of fiction. In order to make a point that it’s not a form of fiction, I needed to provide its definition that would clearly distinguish it from such. That is what I did.

Bibles are in a special section at the library. The same section as other religious works like the Koran.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 20 Jun 2022, 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There was an historical Jesus of Nazareth, I believe, who pissed off a lot of people because he went against both the Roman and the local rabbinical authorities.

There is lots of historical precedent—both before and after Jesus—for such a person who preaches some sort of religious “purity,” while offending a lot of “important” people. Think Martin Luther.

I agree, but that section is a sub-section of religion section. Either that or it’s right next to it. In any case, it’s not in a fiction section, which is the point I was trying to make.

Where is there a record of that outside of the Gospels?

Most academics argue that the Gospels weren’t even eyewitness accounts.

It’s all over the scholarly corpus. It is stated, in multiple mainstream places, that Jesus probably was an historical person.

This does not mean He’s the Son of God, or that He was conceived via immaculate conception, or that He’s, in any way, “divine.”

I think there was an historical Jesus, too, but there’s no way of knowing what exactly he did or didn’t do because there’s not much evidence to rely upon. The Gospels were written during different time periods and were inspired by each other.

Evidence is a more important basis for knowledge than authority.

He’s like most people of his ancient time. Very little is actually known about Him. Probably because He wasn’t a king or some great military leader.

There isn’t all that much known about Pontius Pilate, a regional Roman governor, either. More than is known about Jesus…..but his record is rather fragmented, too.

Jesus was an obscure personage until he was about 30 years of age.

That’s probably because he wasn’t very important and didn’t do much that was worthy of note.

He had a few fans that created tall tales about him. It’s hard to say how much truth is or isn’t in these tall tales.

He was still obscure after 30 years of age outside of his small cult following. He got bigger and bigger over the centuries.

The first three gospels put insane moral standards on anyone who reads them, then the last one called 'john' says just believe.

So, they have an overall structure like a movie series but it's the same story four times...with the different expectations.

So I believe that is 'inspired' i.e. from God, and not just people making it up or a few random manuscripts put together.

The first three show how it's impossible to please God and the last one gives the solution.

If you want to know more there is another book in the Bible called'acts of the apostles' which talks about what happened after the crucifixion. It shows how Christianity spread due to displaying evidence ie miracles. The story of how English king's were converted also include miracles.

Jesus would have been obscure for years due to the lack of media and spreading the word being down to a few evangelists. Non evangelists might've told their friends but it would have stopped there.

Last edited by klanka on 20 Jun 2022, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

luther even offends his fans! I like his poop jokes and fixations, but his temper led to some pretty offensive things, esp regarding Jews.

I must have missed these insane moral standards, example?

They were written at different times. Couldn’t they have been inspired by each others writings?

They also contain various little contradictions.

He did enough to come to the attention of the Roman governor of his region.

There was a “movement” around Him which made various authorities uneasy about Him.

It doesn’t mean He did “great” things—but there was some infamy about Him.

What evidence do you have for this from secular sources of the time period?

Most documented “unease” appeared much later.