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TwilightPrincess
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22 Oct 2023, 10:31 am

God gives the accuser [considered Satan by Christians] the go ahead to test faithful Job’s loyalty.

Job 1:8-12 The Lord said to the accuser, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil.” 9 Then the accuser answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have you not put a fence around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 The Lord said to the accuser, “Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!” So the accuser went out from the presence of the Lord.

Job’s 10 kids and livestock are killed, and he’s struck with a horrible illness.

It ends happy, though, because God blesses him, and he eventually has 10 replacement children, new livestock, and his illness is cured. The ending is totally satisfying in every way. :lol:


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ToughDiamond
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22 Oct 2023, 12:22 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Quote:
The point of that little known last line being...after what you wicked captors did to us we would love to ...bash your babies...... But folks today usually...gloss over THAT last part when they quote the psalm.

Understandable? Yes. When wronged we all relate to having the urge to avenge. They were only human too.

I'm not sure if it IS understandable. I don't think I'd ever want to kill someone's babies no matter what, not even if they killed my son. I'd want the guilty people to pay but not innocent people and especially not children or babies.

Yes, I've noticed a certain disregard for kids throughout the OT, especially those with "sinful" forefathers. Not sure what I'd do if my son was murdered, and hope I never find out. I've heard that people who have been subjected to extreme atrocities can become dangerous beyond belief. It's a disturbing subject of course. I get near to tears thinking about it for long.



TwilightPrincess
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22 Oct 2023, 2:04 pm

Circumcision was a barbaric practice, especially in the days before numbing agents and disinfectant. Probably lots of babies developed infections and died because of it, and yet, it was a requirement. It’s a strange thing for a deity to care about. He really didn’t like babies, though…

Genesis 17:9-14 God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.
11 You shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.
12 Throughout your generations every male among you shall be circumcised when he is eight days old, including the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring.
13 Both the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money must be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.
14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."


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22 Oct 2023, 9:28 pm

Is there a mythology out there where the god or gods are not a bunch of dicks being downright terrible towards mortals?


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TwilightPrincess
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22 Oct 2023, 9:53 pm

None that I'm familiar with.

In my opinion, it would need to involve a god or gods that weren't all-powerful because I don't think a decent, all-powerful god would allow suffering to happen to innocent people.


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TwilightPrincess
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22 Oct 2023, 9:57 pm

I can't believe I haven't mentioned Onan yet. What's not to like about a story involving obligated sex with one's brother's widow AND being put to death for spilling semen on the ground?! It's not about masturbation like many people think but using the pullout method form of birth control. Clearly, Onan was deserving of death for such EXTREME wickedness.

Genesis 38:6-10: Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar. 7 But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.


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TwilightPrincess
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22 Oct 2023, 10:30 pm

Promotion of violence towards nonbelievers in the Qur’an that’s very similar to the Old Testament:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Qur'an 9:29

“As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Qur'an 5:38

Pedophilia in the Qur’an:

“Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses [menstruation], for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.”
Qur'an Text/Transliteration 65:4

Quote:
Here the 'Iddah is prescribed to three categories of women:

1. First the phrase: “Yaisna min al-maheedhi” which means “those women who are desperate of menses” is an indication to women who reached the stage of menstruation but do not menstruate and of those who reached menopause. Desperate of menses underlines that it concerns women who though reached the age, fail to menstruate too. Their 'Iddah period is three months.
2. Next comes, “Wallaee Lam yahidhna” which means “those who have not menstruated yet” This group of females are pre-pubescent girls who have not yet menstruated. Here the 'Iddah prescribed for them is equal to the previous group of women (ie. three months).
3. Lastly, the women who are pregnant - their prescribed 'iddah is until they have given birth.


https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Pedoph ... ur'an.html


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22 Oct 2023, 10:35 pm

“As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Qur'an 5:38

I feel like if that was more common, modern society would have less problems. But then it depends, whose hand is cut off.


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22 Oct 2023, 10:39 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
None that I'm familiar with.

In my opinion, it would need to involve a god or gods that weren't all-powerful because I don't think a decent, all-powerful god would allow suffering to happen to innocent people.


The way mortals are often mistreated by deities, it's like a slow knife to the soul. I honestly prefer deities that are actually hellbent on destroying all mortal life in the universe because the slow knife is then a quick engulfing flame. You'd also have an excellent reason to rise up against such deities.


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I will not apologize for being me.

There is no such thing as perfect. We are beautiful as we are. With all our imperfections, we can do anything.


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22 Oct 2023, 11:52 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Is there a mythology out there where the god or gods are not a bunch of dicks being downright terrible towards mortals?

I doubt it. Gods didn't even pretend to be moral till Jehovah AFAIK, and his moral code was massively out of whack with mine, though later the Jesus thing aligned him nearer to it. The Church of England version of him is the closest thing I know to my views, and even that doesn't really cut it for me. They preach love a lot more than hate these days, which is why I don't mind them so much as the others. Maybe they'll come round to my way of thinking one day, but I won't hold my breath. Oh wait, there's the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He's probably as good as it gets. Then there's the Bahai version of God, which seems quite progressive. Make God in your own image and then if he's a dick, it's your own fault.



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23 Oct 2023, 1:21 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Is there a mythology out there where the god or gods are not a bunch of dicks being downright terrible towards mortals?

I doubt it. Gods didn't even pretend to be moral till Jehovah AFAIK, and his moral code was massively out of whack with mine, though later the Jesus thing aligned him nearer to it. The Church of England version of him is the closest thing I know to my views, and even that doesn't really cut it for me. They preach love a lot more than hate these days, which is why I don't mind them so much as the others. Maybe they'll come round to my way of thinking one day, but I won't hold my breath. Oh wait, there's the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He's probably as good as it gets. Then there's the Bahai version of God, which seems quite progressive. Make God in your own image and then if he's a dick, it's your own fault.


I'd prefer God to be more understanding.


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If my darkness or eccentricity offends you, I don't really care.
I will not apologize for being me.

There is no such thing as perfect. We are beautiful as we are. With all our imperfections, we can do anything.


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23 Oct 2023, 1:39 am

I don't recall the exact passages, but ther were bits about if a man raped a woman he'd have to marry her and I always felt like what the f*ck kind of deal is that for the woman, like so at the end of the day the woman is punished for getting raped by being forced to marry her rapist...is that appropriate for children to read? I am not exactly sure I needed to read about that as a child but idk maybe some people think so long as something is in the bible it cant be wrong, idk maybe some more of those people should actually read it like I did. Maybe they are afraid to read it and only look at the parts they are directed to look at in church services. As some people say the quickest path to becoming an athiest is to read that book all the way through. It was rather true in my case.


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23 Oct 2023, 2:20 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I can't believe I haven't mentioned Onan yet. What's not to like about a story involving obligated sex with one's brother's widow AND being put to death for spilling semen on the ground?! It's not about masturbation like many people think but using the pullout method form of birth control. Clearly, Onan was deserving of death for such EXTREME wickedness.

Genesis 38:6-10: Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar. 7 But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

Like a modern bank customer, he had to pay a substantial penalty for early withdrawal.



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23 Oct 2023, 6:00 am

naturalplastic wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
I can't believe I haven't mentioned Onan yet. What's not to like about a story involving obligated sex with one's brother's widow AND being put to death for spilling semen on the ground?! It's not about masturbation like many people think but using the pullout method form of birth control. Clearly, Onan was deserving of death for such EXTREME wickedness.

Genesis 38:6-10: Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar. 7 But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

Like a modern bank customer, he had to pay a substantial penalty for early withdrawal.

:lol:


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TwilightPrincess
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23 Oct 2023, 6:05 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't recall the exact passages, but ther were bits about if a man raped a woman he'd have to marry her and I always felt like what the f*ck kind of deal is that for the woman, like so at the end of the day the woman is punished for getting raped by being forced to marry her rapist...is that appropriate for children to read? I am not exactly sure I needed to read about that as a child but idk maybe some people think so long as something is in the bible it cant be wrong, idk maybe some more of those people should actually read it like I did. Maybe they are afraid to read it and only look at the parts they are directed to look at in church services. As some people say the quickest path to becoming an athiest is to read that book all the way through. It was rather true in my case.

Here it is in the second paragraph although both are awful:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Rape in Deuteronomy 22: 23 “If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, 24 you shall bring both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help in the town and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged and seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, 29 the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her, he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.

I can't decide which is worse - being stoned or marrying one's rapist.

Yep, reading the Bible certainly was a part of my journey towards atheism. Initially, I had a problem with suffering, then I explored the Bible, then I learned about science, and then I read the work and watched videos of atheists and apostates.


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TwilightPrincess
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23 Oct 2023, 11:42 am

People want to build a tall tower that reaches towards the heavens. This makes God upset, perhaps because he’s concerned that it will make his own phallus look smaller, so he decides to mix up their languages, so they can’t understand each other - sowing disunity when people had been working together peacefully. It’s actually an origin story about why there are different languages, but God is obviously causing problems yet again.

Genesis 11:1,4-9 Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which mortals had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Look, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language there, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore it was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth, and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.


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“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
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