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I'm sick of young Americans obsessing over communism!

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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 8:08 am

Nades wrote:
This is naive idealism at best. Communism has and always will fail because it holds back entrepreneurship and strangles new startups before they can get off the ground. This is assuming Startups will even be legal is a communist nation.

Secondly, there seems to be a trend of communist nations swaying to capitalism because communism was just so hopelessly unsuited for growing an economy. China is the best example and used to be impoverished under Mao but cut throat capitalism has made China unrecognisable.

Thirdly, have any autistics here had a serious think how they would fair in a true communist society? I can't imagine autistics doing all that well. The ones who think it sucks under capitalism would be in for a shock when they're expected to plug in 50 hour weeks in work under communism as seems to be the case in old communist nations.

I would certainly rather my car too. I start early and don't want to wait for the bus, especially considering the lengths of my days sometimes


1. I almost laughed at that because how un-self-aware are you to say that startups are impossible under communism? If I tried to start a soap business right now I guarantee you I would make nothing when my competition is Dove and other companies.

2. tell that to the rapid industrialization and booming economy of Stalin's Russia. (note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point). also, China is very not capitalist right now, though it may appear that way at first glance.

3. the doctrine is 'from each according to his ability'. Under the ideal, we would have at least some accommodations depending on what the status of the country is.


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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 8:11 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I don't understand how these young people can say that the current system concentrates too much power into the hands of too few people and then advocate for a system that concentrates even more power into the hands of even fewer people.


it seems you're misunderstanding how it works. If you're referring to Leninism and Bolshevism Russia, I don't really agree with their use of a vanguard party due to how easy it is to corrupt. Under Marx's original ideas, everyone in their circle would have a say in changes, so it's more power distributed equally


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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 8:14 am

Readydaer wrote:
(note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point).


I love the way pseudo-communists like you and my sister will show complete disregard for the value of human life.

Like my sister told me "Oh sure people had to die buuut..." :roll:


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belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 8:21 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Readydaer wrote:
(note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point).


I love the way pseudo-communists like you and my sister will show complete disregard for the value of human life.

Like my sister told me "Oh sure people had to die buuut..." :roll:

Are you willing to sacrifice your life to save two children? I think it's easier for you to understand your sister's thoughts by saying it this way.


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Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 8:28 am

Readydaer wrote:
Nades wrote:
This is naive idealism at best. Communism has and always will fail because it holds back entrepreneurship and strangles new startups before they can get off the ground. This is assuming Startups will even be legal is a communist nation.

Secondly, there seems to be a trend of communist nations swaying to capitalism because communism was just so hopelessly unsuited for growing an economy. China is the best example and used to be impoverished under Mao but cut throat capitalism has made China unrecognisable.

Thirdly, have any autistics here had a serious think how they would fair in a true communist society? I can't imagine autistics doing all that well. The ones who think it sucks under capitalism would be in for a shock when they're expected to plug in 50 hour weeks in work under communism as seems to be the case in old communist nations.

I would certainly rather my car too. I start early and don't want to wait for the bus, especially considering the lengths of my days sometimes


1. I almost laughed at that because how un-self-aware are you to say that startups are impossible under communism? If I tried to start a soap business right now I guarantee you I would make nothing when my competition is Dove and other companies.

2. tell that to the rapid industrialization and booming economy of Stalin's Russia. (note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point). also, China is very not capitalist right now, though it may appear that way at first glance.

3. the doctrine is 'from each according to his ability'. Under the ideal, we would have at least some accommodations depending on what the status of the country is.


There are plenty of start-ups that are successful, even with competition from large, well established companies. How would a start-up survive in a communist nation where private ownership of any wealth generating business is illegal? Answer....they can't.

Soviet Russia had a terrible economy that wasn't able to compete on the world stage. The only decent innovation they showed was with submarines and rocketry but mostly with the intentions to kill. Are the Soviets your benchmark for a good system of government/economy? I certainly wouldn't consider China to be communist too, they're cut throat capitalists with government ministers shoving their fingers in every pie they can find along the way.

What if someone's ability is still below the average? You might find he general public becoming very intolerant of people like autistics if they get paid the same for doing half the job or more likely, being forced to do the same jobs as NT's. Autistics struggle with employment and it'll be no different in a communist nation.



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13 Dec 2023, 8:28 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Readydaer wrote:
(note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point).


I love the way pseudo-communists like you and my sister will show complete disregard for the value of human life.

Like my sister told me "Oh sure people had to die buuut..." :roll:


I'm not disregarding it? I'm just saying that's irrelevant in the context of the point I am making. also, my disregard for the value of human life has nothing to do with my ideology.


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13 Dec 2023, 8:30 am

Readydaer wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I don't understand how these young people can say that the current system concentrates too much power into the hands of too few people and then advocate for a system that concentrates even more power into the hands of even fewer people.


it seems you're misunderstanding how it works. If you're referring to Leninism and Bolshevism Russia, I don't really agree with their use of a vanguard party due to how easy it is to corrupt. Under Marx's original ideas, everyone in their circle would have a say in changes, so it's more power distributed equally


Marx was a mother and a freeloader. He had plenty of time to think but no practical experience......like at all.

When money is actually involved, his theories will fall apart.



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13 Dec 2023, 8:32 am

Nades wrote:

There are plenty of start-ups that are successful, even with competition from large, well established companies. How would a start-up survive in a communist nation where private ownership of any wealth generating business is illegal? Answer....they can't.

Soviet Russia had a terrible economy that wasn't able to compete on the world stage. The only decent innovation they showed was with submarines and rocketry but mostly with the intentions to kill. Are the Soviets your benchmark for a good system of government/economy? I certainly wouldn't consider China to be communist too, they're cut throat capitalists with government ministers shoving their fingers in every pie they can find along the way.

What if someone's ability is still below the average? You might find he general public becoming very intolerant of people like autistics if they get paid the same for doing half the job or more likely, being forced to do the same jobs as NT's. Autistics struggle with employment and it'll be no different in a communist nation.


the point is that that isn't necessary :roll: why does profit mean everything???

are you trolling right now? wasn't able to compete on the world stage? my man tell that to the red scare USA. also again, China is not capitalist. literally read their Wikipedia article.

i'd think they'd get a job specific to their abilities, if possible, but I admit I haven't put much thought into that situation so I'll concede that point for now.


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13 Dec 2023, 8:36 am

Nades wrote:

Marx was a mother and a freeloader. He had plenty of time to think but no practical experience......like at all.

When money is actually involved, his theories will fall apart.


not really. there are several companies doing quite well right now where everyone from the CEO to the employees make the same amount, although it's only really been implemented on a small scale due to greed. the example I'll use is Madeline Pendleton's business Tunnel Vision. She and her 9 full-time employees all have the same exact salary, and as far as I know it's still going.


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13 Dec 2023, 8:51 am

belijojo wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Readydaer wrote:
(note how I am not mentioning any of the deaths as that is not the point).


I love the way pseudo-communists like you and my sister will show complete disregard for the value of human life.

Like my sister told me "Oh sure people had to die buuut..." :roll:

Are you willing to sacrifice your life to save two children? I think it's easier for you to understand your sister's thoughts by saying it this way.


Maybe I would. But things like the Cultural Revolution in China where Mao convinced China's youth to torture humiliate and murder anyone who didn't want communism has nothing to do with this that.

That's always the impression I get when pseudo-commies start raving about the joys of Marxism. That they would gladly do that here in the US as soon as the timing is right but deny that they really feel this just to win an argument.

I think that the people praising Marx have the same cult-like mindset as the people praising Donald Trump here in the US. In both their minds Marx and Trump never did wrong and they're just counting on history to forget the truth like always. :roll:


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belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 9:07 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Maybe I would. But things like the Cultural Revolution in China where Mao convinced China's youth to torture humiliate and murder anyone who didn't want communism has nothing to do with this that.

That's always the impression I get when pseudo-commies start raving about the joys of Marxism. That they would gladly do that here in the US as soon as the timing is right but deny that they really feel this just to win an argument.

I think that the people praising Marx have the same cult-like mindset as the people praising Donald Trump here in the US. In both their minds Marx and Trump never did wrong and they're just counting on history to forget the truth like always. :roll:

I do not support torture humiliate and murder, and at the same time, I hope you realize that anyone who didn't want communism means the persecution of communists, just as slave owners did to abolitionists.


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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 9:15 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
That's always the impression I get when pseudo-commies start raving about the joys of Marxism. That they would gladly do that here in the US as soon as the timing is right but deny that they really feel this just to win an argument.

I think that the people praising Marx have the same cult-like mindset as the people praising Donald Trump here in the US. In both their minds Marx and Trump never did wrong and they're just counting on history to forget the truth like always. :roll:


you seem very fond of strawmen. trump is one of the biggest fools alive. Marx merely figured out capitalism, put it to paper, and devised an improvement. Anyone in the right situation could do that, he isn't special.


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13 Dec 2023, 9:17 am

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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 9:19 am

belijojo wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Maybe I would. But things like the Cultural Revolution in China where Mao convinced China's youth to torture humiliate and murder anyone who didn't want communism has nothing to do with this that.

That's always the impression I get when pseudo-commies start raving about the joys of Marxism. That they would gladly do that here in the US as soon as the timing is right but deny that they really feel this just to win an argument.

I think that the people praising Marx have the same cult-like mindset as the people praising Donald Trump here in the US. In both their minds Marx and Trump never did wrong and they're just counting on history to forget the truth like always. :roll:

I do not support torture humiliate and murder, and at the same time, I hope you realize that anyone who didn't want communism means the persecution of communists, just as slave owners did to abolitionists.


See the whole moral flipping thing doesnt work on me. My sister also tried to convince me that the Cubans who fled Castro were all "slave owners".

If people truly don't want communism in their country they have a right to fight against it. Was it wrong to "persecute" the Nazis after WW2 given what they did?


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13 Dec 2023, 9:22 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
See the whole moral flipping thing doesnt work on me. My sister also tried to convince me that the Cubans who fled Castro were all "slave owners".

If people truly don't want communism in their country they have a right to fight against it. Was it wrong to "persecute" the Nazis after WW2 given what they did?

Look at their smear campaign against communism! Did the Nazis also become communists? So why did the Soviet Union attack it instead of giving him funding and a pass to join the Soviet Union? You illustrate exactly what I mean by the smear campaign against communists.


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13 Dec 2023, 9:23 am

Readydaer wrote:

you seem very fond of strawmen.


In all fairness so do the communists who try to shove something that many people don't want down their throats and will say anything to discredit their concerns.


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