Is it WRONG to own guns, rifles, swords, knives, etc.?

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Is it wrong to bear arms?
Yes 19%  19%  [ 15 ]
No 81%  81%  [ 66 ]
Total votes : 81

Macbeth
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13 Sep 2007, 8:06 pm

One wonders what it is that means one nation NEEDS firearms, and others dont. Size is obviously not a requirement, as both the US and Australia are huge, with plenty of isolated homesteads and local policing. If anything, given its beginnings in life as a penal colony, one would almost expect it to have MORE of a firearms culture. Both nations went through something of a "frontier" period. So what is the difference that makes one culture triggerhappy, but not the other?


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calandale
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13 Sep 2007, 8:20 pm

Kangaroos are less dangerous than the Cheyenne were?



Quatermass
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13 Sep 2007, 8:26 pm

calandale wrote:
Kangaroos are less dangerous than the Cheyenne were?


LOL.

You'd be surprised, they can disembowel you if you piss them off.


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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2007, 8:27 pm

Well, I am proud to be an American because we have less car theft, rape, property crime and burglary per capita than Australia.

Car Theft
Rape
Property crime
Burglary

Just a little bit of snarkiness there. :wink:

I would be hesitant to call the US uncivilized as well, part of the reason is that civilization is a difficult term to apply objectively, not only that but the US is one of the most powerful western nations in most terms, it has the strongest military, one of the strongest economies, great technology, a strong university system, and we have had a significant number of nobel prize winners.



The_Chosen_One
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13 Sep 2007, 8:31 pm

Macbeth: I think it could be that in Australia we have more 'mateship' and we give people more of a 'fair go'. Plus it could be our ties to Britain, even though they may not be as strong nowadays. I suppose here there may not be as much paranoia and we don't see the need to 'look over our shoulders' all the time, and maybe we do trust authority a little more. Still, I guess being able to feel safer walking down the street at virtually any time of day is better than having to lock myself up for fear of being killed.


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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2007, 8:51 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Macbeth: I think it could be that in Australia we have more 'mateship' and we give people more of a 'fair go'. Plus it could be our ties to Britain, even though they may not be as strong nowadays. I suppose here there may not be as much paranoia and we don't see the need to 'look over our shoulders' all the time, and maybe we do trust authority a little more. Still, I guess being able to feel safer walking down the street at virtually any time of day is better than having to lock myself up for fear of being killed.

Strangely enough though Americans feel a lot safer out late at night than Australians so I am not sure that the idea of living in fear in America is really justified.
Walk in the dark feeling safe

Not only that but Americans are more likely to believe that the police are efficient than Australians.
Belief in police efficiency

We are less trusting of police as an institute than Australians but by a small amount. Trust in police

We are more confident in our legal institutions than Australians though. Trust legal institutions

We are even slightly more trusting of our fellow man than Australians. Trust people.



Macbeth
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13 Sep 2007, 8:59 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
The_Chosen_One wrote:
Macbeth: I think it could be that in Australia we have more 'mateship' and we give people more of a 'fair go'. Plus it could be our ties to Britain, even though they may not be as strong nowadays. I suppose here there may not be as much paranoia and we don't see the need to 'look over our shoulders' all the time, and maybe we do trust authority a little more. Still, I guess being able to feel safer walking down the street at virtually any time of day is better than having to lock myself up for fear of being killed.

Strangely enough though Americans feel a lot safer out late at night than Australians so I am not sure that the idea of living in fear in America is really justified.
Walk in the dark feeling safe

Not only that but Americans are more likely to believe that the police are efficient than Australians.
Belief in police efficiency

We are less trusting of police as an institute than Australians but by a small amount. Trust in police

We are more confident in our legal institutions than Australians though. Trust legal institutions

We are even slightly more trusting of our fellow man than Australians. Trust people.


Theres something disturbingly orwellian about those last 3 link names.. Trust your masters would be the next one ;) ?

My own theory is that as australia never passed through a revolutionary period, but achieved independence ina less military way, the government didnt implement the legal ability for its people to overthrow it if it acted up. Far as i know, most places that took independence peacefully avoided such, and have much less of a firearms culture.


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iamnotaparakeet
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13 Sep 2007, 8:59 pm

Quatermass wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
No, Australia. With 16 Black Ops Soldiers.


BS artistry is easy to deal with. You don't need a gun for that. :P


"We are the French and we spit at that crap you call artwork!" Patuey! :twisted:



RedHanrahan
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13 Sep 2007, 9:01 pm

@Awesomelyglorious

So if the US is such a safe and pleasant place to be why do you need the weapons?

Personally I am glad that at worst I am most likely to be given a kicking or bashed with a baseball bat than I am to be shot!
Citing a whole lot of polls to denigrate Aussie doesn't justify the whole BS mentality of 'the right to bear arms'... lol
peace j


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Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2007, 9:08 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
@Awesomelyglorious

So if the US is such a safe and pleasant place to be why do you need the weapons?

Personally I am glad that at worst I am most likely to be given a kicking or bashed with a baseball bat than I am to be shot!
Citing a whole lot of polls to denigrate Aussie doesn't justify the whole BS mentality of 'the right to bear arms'... lol
peace j

I never was that concerned with the right to bear arms. I just was tired of him making stupid attacks against my country, I am fine with many intelligent attacks of course. I think a large part of the mentality is a cultural mentality about the right to bear arms. I don't think that most Americans have weapons because they are deathly afraid of getting killed, but rather because our culture allows for weapon ownership and certain groups prize weapons very highly. To them I think it is a matter of status, just like SUVs are matters of status. I do not support abolishing the 2nd Amendment though because of the cultural issues tied with guns, I do not believe that Americans will give up their guns and I think that a black market for guns could be more dangerous than the open markets. Do I have to justify their mentality though? No, of course not. Like most status symbols across the world, the reasons for them are similar and personal.



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13 Sep 2007, 9:13 pm

Exactly. Even though we Antipodeans have some proble,ms with the indigenies (aborigines and Maories), I would feel more comfortable walking amongst them than a group of juiced up Hispanics, or negroes or Caucasians in America, simply because of the mentality that they have in regard to violence and the perception that everyone is out to get them. Sure, we may have had some corruption in the Police, but it's nothing compared to the scale that happens in the US, and the fact that weapons are available to anyone who has the readies to buy them and apply for the permits means that this violence just gets worse. At least if I get hit with a cricket bat, I would probably survive; but if some loon shot me, it's hello afterlife or whatever.


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13 Sep 2007, 9:14 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
snake: I don't live in America, thankfully; I live in what seems to be a more civilized society, here in Australia. We don't see the need to blow out neighbours' heads off because we don't like their music, or start revolutions because our government pisses us off, we mostly let the authorities handle any crime that happens, and the courts deal with the offenders in whatever way they deem necessary. And being an outsider looking in on your fiefdom, it gives me the absolute right to criticise how you guys are being run, and what your policies and laws are. Seeing as you want us as an ally and have roped us into helping save your butts. I can gladly walk the streets knowing that I won't be killed by some idiot UNLESS i do something to piss them off. Where as you only have to walk out your front door and it's BOOM BOOM BOOM.... Another one bites the dust. As I said, that amendment is not worth the paper it was written on, and thank Christ or whatever we seem to be civilised enough in Australia not to need it.


You put too much faith in authority. Who is to say theyr going to use their guns responsibly?



Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2007, 9:14 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Theres something disturbingly orwellian about those last 3 link names.. Trust your masters would be the next one ;) ?

My own theory is that as australia never passed through a revolutionary period, but achieved independence ina less military way, the government didnt implement the legal ability for its people to overthrow it if it acted up. Far as i know, most places that took independence peacefully avoided such, and have much less of a firearms culture.

Yes, of course. Trust masters

As you can see, Americans don't trust their masters a lot. Australians do less apparently.

Your theory does make some sense, frankly, I don't know a lot about Australian history/culture, but the entire issue of the rugged individual, and the frontiersman probably feed into the American ideal as well.



snake321
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13 Sep 2007, 9:19 pm

Perhaps anti-self defense proponents here are a bit communist? Perhaps since THEY don't like having freedom and rights, they don't think OTHER people should enjoy freedom and rights?
No, most likely they take their freedom and rights for granted, theyr so egotistical that they think they can sit on their ass and smoke the peace pipe in some stupid little hippy commune and history will never repeat itself against them. And no amount of evidence can convince them otherwise, because their opinions are set in stone.... "It's what liberals believe", no need to question it any further right :roll:



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13 Sep 2007, 9:20 pm

Dude I'm threw with this thread, it's pointless arguing with f*****g ret*ds anyways (yes I called you ret*d).



iamnotaparakeet
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13 Sep 2007, 9:22 pm

snake321 wrote:
Dude I'm threw with this thread, it's pointless arguing with f***ing ret*ds anyways (yes I called you ret*d).


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