What do you believe about Jesus?

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he was a hustler just like the dozens of other "messiahs" around at the time, he just got the largest audience.

This seems really weird to me now, that so many people on wp believe the New Testament.

What proof have you that Jesus ever existed?

The first person to refer to a "character" called Jesus in a way recognised by Christianity, whose records have come down to us, ( although containing many strange contradictions about his own life), was Paul. At least a couple of decades after Jesus had supposedly died on the cross.

Paul's writings not only contain data about his own life seriously at odds with what is written in Acts, as exposed in "The Problem of Paul" by Hyam Maccoby from his book: "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity" at:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/paul_problem.htm

but also present such an insubstantial picture of Jesus that it is probable that at that time there was still no effort/attempt to pretend he had ever been real. Paul was referring to a mythological/archetypal figure. ( only those of his letters which were sufficiently ambiguous/vague on this point were selected by the church when it began to decide which documents would best serve their design/purposes 200+ years later).

As time passed the story was elaborated, and eventually declared to be historical. The site http://www.jesusneverexisted.com is good for data on this. See the page http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/saul-paul.htm for more about Paul.

I used to dither about what kind of man, teacher, megalomaniac, prophet, hippy, pedagogue, demi-god Jesus had been, but I didn't really question whether he had actually existed.

The funny thing is that even at my most atheist, I believed the Bible about it.

I believe Jesus was an early incarnation of what we'd call politicians nowadays. A leader of a group of people, and probably a very charismatic person (a lot more caring and charismatic than the average leader) and because of that, in an era where science was virtually inexisting, people easily start seeing something beyond a regular leader in the man. I don't believe in gods, angels and such so I believe Jesus was a sort of guru, a sort of leader where people created the godly connections in their own heads.

By the way, there is also proof that prophet Muhammad existed, but I think the same applies to him: no godly connections, but a charismatic leader where people started to believe he was more than the political leader he really was.

IF Jesus existed,(and archaeologists have never been able to verify that Yeshua Ben Yosef did), he was possibly a great teacher and leader of his people. As for son of god, even Christians admit that in his supposed lifetime, he NEVER ONCE admitted to being such. He NEVER admitted to being a messiah either. He preached the word of the day, as did many other prophets of the time.
Why he was crucified by the Romans was that he denied his relationship to the Jewish god, and therefore the Jews turned on him. When questioned by Herod and Pilate, he denied being the messiah and therefore took the punishment. Crucifixion was a punishment by the Romans for breaking the law, and the Romans thought that he may have been an insurrectionist. His comment on the cross (going by scripture) does not prove kinship with a god, as everyone who prayed to their deity referred to said deity as Father (or Mother in some cases). Matter of fact, it can't even be proven as to the existence of the disciple either, because no physical remains have ever been discovered or proved to exist. We only have folklore to show of any existence, and for all we know when constantine commissioned the bible in 312 CE, all 66 books could have been written there and then.

Rewriting history, eh?


How much proof is there for any of the ancient figures?

My point exactly. We mainly have proof from texts about certain figures, and as was said earlier, records were kept of important people, but how accurate can the bible actually be if no records of any of these people can be verified except for what is written in the scriptures themselves? Conspiracy nuts will tell you that the moon landing was faked - do you believe that? Did Columbus leave a marker saying 'I was here. Chris' in 1492 when he landed on American soil (which at that time he thought was India)? No. But with the bible, because it is written in code, and the fact that it was written so long ago, and translated umpteen times, then who's to say that a lot of it wasn't just made up to fill in gaps? I mean, even some archaeologists doubt the voracity of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Who do I think Jesus Christ is?

[X] God in the form of a man.
[X] Great prophet.
[X] Great moral teacher.
[X] The only begotten son of God.
[X] Born of a virgin.
[X] Raised as a Jew.
[X] Lived as a man among humans.
[X] Taught a religion of hope, love, and mercy.
[X] Performed many signs, miracles, and wonders in God's name.
[X] Surrendered His godly authority.
[X] Accused of treason and other crimes by the Sanhedrin.
[X] Sentenced to death by Pontius Pilate.
[X] Crucified by the Roman soldiers under Pontius Pilate.
[X] Shed His blood for the remission of our sins.
[X] Died on the first day.
[X] Lay in the tomb throughout the second day.
[X] Rose from the dead on the third day.
[X] Ascended to Heaven.
[X] Sits at the right hand of God to await the judgement of all humanity.
[X] My personal Lord and Saviour...
[X] ... yours too, if you so choose.

I believe Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah, the Second Person of the Trinity. I believe He atoned for the sins of all mankind by dying on the cross at Cavalry. He offers us that salvation to this day. It is available for all who would seek it.