"_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!"

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Who killed Anne Frank?
Poll ended at 10 May 2008, 12:30 am
Charles Darwin 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Karl Marx 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
The CEO of I.G. Farben 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Christians or some other mystic sort 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Some liberal guy 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Some conservative guy 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Adam Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other 16%  16%  [ 11 ]
All of the above 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Hitler 67%  67%  [ 45 ]
Total votes : 67

Kalister1
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07 May 2008, 12:50 am

slowmutant wrote:
I agree, and that's why it worries me when a guy talks about reading Mein Kampf as if it were a Book of the Month selection. Now there's the kind of reader who might seek out the diaries of imprisoned serial killers. Ignorance of certain things can actually be good for you.


You are a moron.



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07 May 2008, 1:08 am

In order to oppose something effectively, understanding it is essential.



Kalister1
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07 May 2008, 1:20 am

I was reading Mein Kampf last night. I don't like his manner of prose. I have it in my library, which is ever increasing. He seems to have been influenced by a number of different sources.



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07 May 2008, 1:30 am

Kalister1 wrote:
I was reading Mein Kampf last night. I don't like his manner of prose. I have it in my library, which is ever increasing. He seems to have been influenced by a number of different sources.


The OP's assertion, that "the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence," would appear to be true, then. :) Hitler was an effective and persuasive public speaker, but perhaps his writing style didn't lend itself well to English translation. I can't say, since I've not read Mein Kampf, myself.



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07 May 2008, 1:42 am

SleepyDragon wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
I was reading Mein Kampf last night. I don't like his manner of prose. I have it in my library, which is ever increasing. He seems to have been influenced by a number of different sources.


The OP's assertion, that "the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence," would appear to be true, then. :) Hitler was an effective and persuasive public speaker, but perhaps his writing style didn't lend itself well to English translation. I can't say, since I've not read Mein Kampf, myself.


He sounds, distinctly German. I've read a lot of Germans, from Marx to Nietzsche, from Schopenhauer to Kant, from Goethe to now Hitler. I want to read Heideigger. Those Germans, they be crazy.



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07 May 2008, 8:51 am

Kalister1 wrote:
SleepyDragon wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
I was reading Mein Kampf last night. I don't like his manner of prose. I have it in my library, which is ever increasing. He seems to have been influenced by a number of different sources.


The OP's assertion, that "the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence," would appear to be true, then. :) Hitler was an effective and persuasive public speaker, but perhaps his writing style didn't lend itself well to English translation. I can't say, since I've not read Mein Kampf, myself.


He sounds, distinctly German. I've read a lot of Germans, from Marx to Nietzsche, from Schopenhauer to Kant, from Goethe to now Hitler. I want to read Heideigger. Those Germans, they be crazy.


Ja. Try reading Hegel (if you haven't). Your head will lit'rally spin! 8O

(I like the way the British say "literally".)

He uses language formally and extremely technically. (Aspie?)

From The Phenomenology of the Mind:

Quote:
IN the kinds of certainty hitherto considered, the truth for consciousness is something other than consciousness itself. The conception, however, of this truth vanishes in the course of our experience of it. What the object immediately was in itself — whether mere being in sense-certainty, a concrete thing in perception, or force in the case of understanding — it turns out, in truth, not to be this really; but instead, this inherent nature (Ansich) proves to be a way in which it is for an other. The abstract conception of the object gives way before the actual concrete object, or the first immediate idea is cancelled in the course of experience. Mere certainty vanished in favour of the truth. There has now arisen, however, what was not established in the case of these previous relationships, viz. a certainty which is on a par with its truth, for the certainty is to itself its own object, and consciousness is to itself the truth. Otherness, no doubt, is also found there; consciousness, that is, makes a distinction; but what is distinguished is of such a kind that consciousness, at the same time, holds there is no distinction made. If we call the movement of knowledge conception, and knowledge, qua simple unity or Ego, the object, we see that not only for us [tracing the process], but likewise for knowledge itself, the object corresponds to the conception; or, if we put it in the other form and call conception what the object is in itself, while applying the term object to what the object is qua object or for an other, it is clear that being “in-itself” and being “for an other” are here the same. For the inherent being (Ansich) is consciousness; yet it is still just as much that for which an other (viz. what is “in-itself”) is. And it is for consciousness that the inherent nature (Ansich) of the object, and its “being for an other” are one and the same. Ego is the content of the relation, and itself the process of relating. It is Ego itself which is opposed to an other and, at the same time, reaches out beyond this other, which other is all the same taken to be only itself.


:o Day-am!! ! :o


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07 May 2008, 10:46 am

Ragtime wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
SleepyDragon wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
I was reading Mein Kampf last night. I don't like his manner of prose. I have it in my library, which is ever increasing. He seems to have been influenced by a number of different sources.


The OP's assertion, that "the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence," would appear to be true, then. :) Hitler was an effective and persuasive public speaker, but perhaps his writing style didn't lend itself well to English translation. I can't say, since I've not read Mein Kampf, myself.


He sounds, distinctly German. I've read a lot of Germans, from Marx to Nietzsche, from Schopenhauer to Kant, from Goethe to now Hitler. I want to read Heideigger. Those Germans, they be crazy.


Ja. Try reading Hegel (if you haven't). Your head will lit'rally spin! 8O

(I like the way the British say "literally".)

He uses language formally and extremely technically. (Aspie?)

From The Phenomenology of the Mind:

Quote:
IN the kinds of certainty hitherto considered, the truth for consciousness is something other than consciousness itself. The conception, however, of this truth vanishes in the course of our experience of it. What the object immediately was in itself — whether mere being in sense-certainty, a concrete thing in perception, or force in the case of understanding — it turns out, in truth, not to be this really; but instead, this inherent nature (Ansich) proves to be a way in which it is for an other. The abstract conception of the object gives way before the actual concrete object, or the first immediate idea is cancelled in the course of experience. Mere certainty vanished in favour of the truth. There has now arisen, however, what was not established in the case of these previous relationships, viz. a certainty which is on a par with its truth, for the certainty is to itself its own object, and consciousness is to itself the truth. Otherness, no doubt, is also found there; consciousness, that is, makes a distinction; but what is distinguished is of such a kind that consciousness, at the same time, holds there is no distinction made. If we call the movement of knowledge conception, and knowledge, qua simple unity or Ego, the object, we see that not only for us [tracing the process], but likewise for knowledge itself, the object corresponds to the conception; or, if we put it in the other form and call conception what the object is in itself, while applying the term object to what the object is qua object or for an other, it is clear that being “in-itself” and being “for an other” are here the same. For the inherent being (Ansich) is consciousness; yet it is still just as much that for which an other (viz. what is “in-itself”) is. And it is for consciousness that the inherent nature (Ansich) of the object, and its “being for an other” are one and the same. Ego is the content of the relation, and itself the process of relating. It is Ego itself which is opposed to an other and, at the same time, reaches out beyond this other, which other is all the same taken to be only itself.


:o Day-am!! ! :o


Hegelian nonsynthesis topic

Stream of discontinuous consciousness.
The more nebulous he reads, the more erudite he appears to his scholarly readers. :roll:


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08 May 2008, 3:56 pm

Hitler caused the Holocaust.
No one else.



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08 May 2008, 9:23 pm

He couldn't have done it all by himself.



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08 May 2008, 9:57 pm

In my opinion, the genesis of the Holocaust goes back much further than Hitler. I think the first major pogroms occurred around the times of the First Crusade, by a bunch of ret*d, power and money hungry coprocephalites who thought it was stupid to slaughter Muslims in the Holy Land (which it was) when the real killers of Christ lived amongst them (that was stupid as well).

Anti-semitism took a long road to the Holocaust. Anne Frank, in a sense, was killed by Hitler, but due to a chain of circumstances and events that lead to this moment.

I think that the Holocaust, in itself, was inevitable. Something had to have happened to shock mankind out of Genocide and race-superiority. Am I saying Hitler would inevitably do so? No. It may have been the Russians or the Italian fascists. If Mosley came to power in Britain, the British may have started the Holocaust, or the French. Now the French were very anti-Semitic, as anyone who has heard about the Dreyfus affair knows.

Xenophobia and anti-Semitism will never go away completely, especially given the widespread nature of Jews in society, and their rather heavy-handed tactics in creating and preserving Israel. And, unfortunately, something tells me that anti-Semitism will last as long as the Jews exist.

I chose 'other' on the poll, as so many events and people's decisions came to a point in which the industrialised killing of millions of people, not just Jews, but Gypsies, Slavic people, homosexuals and the disabled happened.

In truth, it was xenophobia that killed Anne Frank.


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10 May 2008, 5:03 am

MissPickwickian wrote:

1. Internationalists are not nationalists. That's rhetorically impossible.


I tried to explain in my post that the internationalists use “the Nazis” to discredit nationalism in the minds of the masses. If you can understand that this is what I was saying, then the obvious inference is that I’m fully aware that internationalism and nationalism are different.

MissPickwickian wrote:

3. What, in your opinion, do "these people" have to hide? What are you implying here?


I asked first. Do you think it should be against the law in a free country to re-examine establishment interpretations of history?



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10 May 2008, 5:05 am

Odin wrote:
codarac wrote:
Odin wrote:
The rise of the Nazis was the end result of the Romantic Nationalism that started in the early 1800s.


And the Nazis are now a tool for the demonisation of nationalism by the new power elite in the Western world: the internationalists, who seek to abolish nation states via mass immigration, endless propaganda about “diversity”, and making sure (with support and pressure from Jewish groups) that the Holocaust gets shoved down the throats of schoolchildren, while these same schoolchildren are told next to nothing about the millions who were killed by Communism.

In fact, the Holocaust is so important to the powers-that-be that Holocaust revisionism, which is already a thought-crime in some countries, will soon be a thought-crime throughout the EU.

Why? What do these people have to hide?


BS.


Thanks for that short and sweet response.
I might have responded the same way a few years ago.
I know what it’s like to have someone suggesting answers to certain questions when one never really thought there were questions to ask in the first place.

For example, I have seen you in this forum wondering out loud why Muslim immigrants aren’t integrating very well in Europe. But have you ever thought to ask what they are doing in Europe in such large numbers in the first place?

Have you thought to ask why prosperous, developed Western nations – from former colonial powers such as Britain, France and Germany to smaller nations such as Denmark, Ireland and Sweden – have all decided, at the same point in history, to import millions of ethnically and culutrally distant immigrants from the Third World?

Perhaps since you live in America, a genuine nation of immigrants, you think these things that are happening today in the West are simply unavoidable.
They’re not. They’re the results of political decisions, taken by the elites for the benefit of the elites, and taken without the consent of the West's majority populations.



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10 May 2008, 5:36 am

codarac wrote:
MissPickwickian wrote:

3. What, in your opinion, do "these people" have to hide? What are you implying here?


I asked first. Do you think it should be against the law in a free country to re-examine establishment interpretations of history?


No, and your comments about the deaths in Communist states is well-founded. However, your allegations of internationalists being involved in a world-wide conspiracy is reflective of the sort of mindset that created the Nazis and the facists in general (not to mention Soviet and Maoist Communism) in the first place: the need to blame everything on something other than yourself.

Holocaust revisionism and denial in itself is a farcical and dangerous exercise simply because of the documentary evidence involved. The Communists were smarter. They rarely took photos and films of their killings, to my knowledge.

In an earlier post, you said that internationalists were dedicated to destroying nation-states through mass-immigration. What would they hope to acheive? How many people would want to immigrate?

I agree that there are many aspects of the foundation of Israel leave a lot to be desired. But you seem to suggest that there is an active Jewish element involved in 'shoving the Holocaust down the throats of schoolchildren'. Why does this argument have shades of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?


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10 May 2008, 9:54 am

Ragtime wrote:
Ja. Try reading Hegel (if you haven't). Your head will lit'rally spin! 8O

(I like the way the British say "literally".)

He uses language formally and extremely technically. (Aspie?)

From The Phenomenology of the Mind:

Quote:
IN the kinds of certainty hitherto considered, the truth for consciousness is something other than consciousness itself. The conception, however, of this truth vanishes in the course of our experience of it. What the object immediately was in itself — whether mere being in sense-certainty, a concrete thing in perception, or force in the case of understanding — it turns out, in truth, not to be this really; but instead, this inherent nature (Ansich) proves to be a way in which it is for an other. The abstract conception of the object gives way before the actual concrete object, or the first immediate idea is cancelled in the course of experience. Mere certainty vanished in favour of the truth. There has now arisen, however, what was not established in the case of these previous relationships, viz. a certainty which is on a par with its truth, for the certainty is to itself its own object, and consciousness is to itself the truth. Otherness, no doubt, is also found there; consciousness, that is, makes a distinction; but what is distinguished is of such a kind that consciousness, at the same time, holds there is no distinction made. If we call the movement of knowledge conception, and knowledge, qua simple unity or Ego, the object, we see that not only for us [tracing the process], but likewise for knowledge itself, the object corresponds to the conception; or, if we put it in the other form and call conception what the object is in itself, while applying the term object to what the object is qua object or for an other, it is clear that being “in-itself” and being “for an other” are here the same. For the inherent being (Ansich) is consciousness; yet it is still just as much that for which an other (viz. what is “in-itself”) is. And it is for consciousness that the inherent nature (Ansich) of the object, and its “being for an other” are one and the same. Ego is the content of the relation, and itself the process of relating. It is Ego itself which is opposed to an other and, at the same time, reaches out beyond this other, which other is all the same taken to be only itself.


:o Day-am!! ! :o


I must agree with Schopenhauer that Hegel is unreadable drivel. Total BS obscured by deep-sounding babble. The moron rejected the Law of Non-Contradiction for Christ sakes.


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10 May 2008, 10:33 pm

Duh, it was the Jews!

Hahaha just kidding.
Honestly, it's just ignorance in general that causes these sorts of things.


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10 May 2008, 10:45 pm

codarac wrote:
Have you thought to ask why prosperous, developed Western nations – from former colonial powers such as Britain, France and Germany to smaller nations such as Denmark, Ireland and Sweden – have all decided, at the same point in history, to import millions of ethnically and culutrally distant immigrants from the Third World?

"Importing?" So European nations are actually compelling foreigners to move there, rather than simply permitting it as any free society would? People from the Third World have no motivation to try to move to more prosperous nations? You assume that all patterns of immigration are at the will of the country being immigrated to- not the case, as America's experience clearly showed. Countries which are attractive to live in will get immigrants, whether they want them or not.


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