Religion bashing

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Yes, please explain this in mathematical terms sand.

It does defy logic and common sense. But, remember that our perception is that of an animals. Our conscience/super ego is a mystery still.
Religion often takes this out of the equation and tells people to follow rules and do not add or subtract to their dogma.
This stifles our growth and imagination. Imagination is the key to opening up the spiritual portal. If you begin to search for God and have a real desire to cling to this infinite wonder that I'm talking about, you will be taken on an incredible journey. At least, that's how I experience it.
Still though, I feel like I want to show you, not save you, but just go take a look over there beyond the earthly horizon.

Nevertheless.. they have been judged.. and have been found guilty.

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"Against the shepherds my anger has grown hot, and against the
goatlike leaders I shall hold an accounting; for God has turned his attention to his drove.” (devil = half goat - half man)

“Her own head ones judge merely for a bribe, and her own priests instruct just for a price, and her own prophets practice divination simply for money; yet upon God they keep supporting themselves, saying: "Is not God in the midst of us? There will come upon us no calamity."

Zechariah10:3 + Micah 3:11

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Infinity is not a thing, it is a process. It's totality is beyond imagination. Feeling bliss is like having an orgasm, a discharge of nervous and glandular energy and probably not much different from taking a quantity if morphine or heroine to get high. You can call it experiencing God if you like but whenever some people get some sort of neural discharge they might attribute it to an unknown higher power but that does not make it so.

"For it is a rebellious people, untruthful sons, sons who have been unwilling to hear the Law of God; who have said to the ones seeing, `You must not see,' and to the ones having visions, `You must not envision for us any straightforward things; envision deceptive things."

Isaiah 30:9

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me<---proud heathen

I'd say the christian responses have also been typical...

Will you stop throwing scripture around. It proves nothing. If the bible is truly the word of god then you have to believe the whole thing, and that makes anyone that does a YEC which is foolish in the extreme.

Hmmm... I think I once remember Sand stating he is 82, unless he was kidding. For some reason, I do not think anyone is going to be changing his mind. I quite enjoy hearing what people from my grandparent's generation have to say about the world, much more so than my own or my parent's generation. I find Sand's posts rather interesting, and even though I some times do not agree, would rather read than argue any day.

“Everyone inexperienced puts faith in every word , but the shrewd One considers his steps.” – Proverbs 14.15

I find it good for arguing..

It proves you don't have to believe the whole thing.


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Accelerator, there's even a clearer answer than that. Looking at it from a anthropology and sociology angle, science had its roots in Christianity and trying to better understand the mechanics of what God created. When people try to cut a hard line between the two it's essentially in fallacy.

Accelerator's verses are very poignant. Sand was ridiculing those who have faith. There is no need to have faith in science because it shows proof in the physical. We were talking about spiritual matters. You either get it or don't I guess. I find it amazing that some are so reluctant to try though.

Enjoy



(What kind of infinity are we talking about anyway?)

PWNED by oneoverxequalsinfinityasxapproacheszero.

With what Accelerator had quoted, it looked like Sand was saying that the religious, by virtue of being religious and having faith, were ignoring science - and I agree with you, in my opinion as well science neither proves nor disproves any sort of spirituality. If someone makes a statement that you either believe in science or you believe in the spiritual and that the one is a function of denying the other, they're making their own leap of faith and assuming things that the numbers really can't tell them.

I know very little about anthropology and sociology..

All I have is a 10 yard swimming certificate.. that's all..

I guess my calling was to become a life-guard..


However.. I was thinking more along these lines..

“You must not envision for us any straightforward things”

As being equal to.. not putting “faith in logic and science”..

Which I understand to be “straightforward things”

I’m just making connections..


In my mind.. God is an atheist..

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"The men who discovered for us the Law of Love were greater scientists than any of our modern scientists. Only our explorations have not gone far enough and so it is not possible for every one to see all its working.

Such, at any rate, is the hallucination, if it is one, under which I am laboring. The more I work at this law the more I feel the delight in life, the delight in the scheme of this universe. It gives me a peace and a meaning of the mysteries of nature that I have no power to describe."

Gandhi

"Love the world as your own self; then you can truly care for all things."

Lao Tzu

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I never claimed that infinity could not be symbolized or incorporated into mathematical processes. But to be able to mentally grasp its totality except as a vague and amorphous whole is not really possible.

Both science and religion speculate openly but for science, the speculation is merely the beginning of a search for confirmation in physical reality. Religion merely asserts a speculation and if it seems psychologically comforting it is accepted with no further question. That is why, under some theological cultures, questioning some of the basic speculation is treated as a criminal activity and severely punished since frequently the social power structure is dependent upon absolute acceptance of the speculative assertions and doubts could foment destruction of the system. This is in strong contrast to science wherein perceptive doubts open up new horizons for creative speculation and confirmation.

Why would it necessarily be beyond imagination? Why is it not possible to imagine it? BTW Sand, while infinity is not a quantity, it is a Concept; and so it essential is a *thing*. Now I have never experienced God and the experiences described by religious people have PLENTY of more mundane explantions. I dont believe in God because I have never had direct contact with God nor seen God demonstrate his power by explicitly violating physical law.

Last edited by Haliphron on 05 Oct 2008, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.