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Averick
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16 Feb 2009, 7:38 pm

Wow, twoshots. You know exactly what you're talking about.

Percentage of Abduction Reports
Country Grey Reports\ Other Types
Australia 50%\ 50%
Mainland Western Europe 48%\ 52%
Great Britain 12%\ 88%
USA 73%\ 27%
Brazil 67%\ 33%

The british mostly get abducted by "aryan" aliens who look just like us.
Apparently this is the same race of aliens that Hitler was all googly about, shambala, and all that non-sense.



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16 Feb 2009, 8:25 pm

I considered that maybe the reason why Phil Schneider had such a bad experience with aliens was because he was himself a soldier who would have participated in similar activities to "take over the world." It's just a speculation.

The abduction reports that I've read were mostly repressed memories that were uncovered during hypnosis. It does seem to be more of a cultural phenomenon but that being said, there is still some archetypal significance to it. There still are some loose ends too, like the sightings and witnesses who also see the ufo's around the time of the so called abduction. The most striking thing is the emotional impact that the contact has on the abductee.


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17 Feb 2009, 10:51 am

Is THIS the thread where you folks were speculating about Aliens being able to move through walls and possibly fall through floors??? The probability of that is exactly Zero. There is NO REASON to believe that aliens are anything other than Physical Beings made up of the SAME kind of matter that we are(atoms and molecules in solid and liquid states)! What stops us from moving through walls is the Electromagnetic force; what keeps our feet on the floor of course is Gravity. :wink:
There are a host of subatomic particles that can move through walls BTW but DO have mass, like neutrinos for example.



Magnus
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17 Feb 2009, 11:41 am

Stop yelling Haliphron. You always come in yelling and you don't even know what I'm talking about.


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17 Feb 2009, 12:08 pm

Haliphron wrote:
Sand wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Sand: Have you noticed the fact that autotrophic terrestrial organisms, EVEN those that are multicellular, tend to have minimal complexity? The point being that unless they are abiotic sentient machines, we can saftely assume that Aliens are living organisms and DO share some of the very basic characteristics that comprise the definiton of life. I seriously call into question whether its even POSSIBLE for autotrophs to develop the biological complexity required for sentience. Intelligent ETs can be more or less GUARANTEED to be heterotrophic and its also very likely they reproduce sexually.


Although sex is divided here on Earth into male and female there have been speculations by imaginative writers that it may be more elaborate elsewhere. When a planet reaches capacity for supporting life as is approaching rapidly on Earth it might be a wise ploy of evolution that it could require ten or more different sexes to produce an offspring. That could slow reproductive rates considerably.


But WHY would there be any biological incentive for there to be more than 2 sexes? WHAT reproductive roles would the additional sexes fufill???

In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, the Pierson's puppeteers have three genders - male, female, and breeder. The female implants an ovum in the breeder using an ovipositor; the male then deposits the sperm, and the breeder carries the young to term. This leaves two-thirds of the social group to find food and guard against predators - very important functions in an herbivorous species.

In Isaac Asimov's novel The Gods Themselves, the race in the parallel universe had three genders - the Rational, the Emotional, and the Parental. It required an act of will on the parts of all three to reproduce; Asimov was reluctant to discuss the mechanism of their reproduction. (He was quite randy in personal conversation, but much more reticent in his writing.

A. E. van Vogt, in his story Scarlet Discord (later part three of the novel Voyage of the Space Beagle), introduced the Ixtl, with a reproductive cycle based somewhat on the Terrestrial digger wasp; they implant the egg in a paralyzed host, then the young hatches and eats its way out. This was borrowed by Ridley Scott for the movie Alien; Scott was later successfully sued by van Vogt's estate.

In the Sector General story Visitor at Large, James White introduced us to a life form with the four-letter classification SRTT. Coming from a world with a highly eccentric orbit, they had evolved the ability to modify their physical form in order to survive almost anything, and to mimic the appearance of nearby lifeforms (the young one in the story tried to pass itself off as a human DBDG and a Hudlar FROB before being captured by hospital staff). They reproduced by budding, and passed parental memories at the same time. (The patient in the story was trying to undergo a hebephrenic regression to childhood; in his species' case, however, that meant essentially dissolving into seawater...)

In the Sector General novel Ambulance Ship, our heroes encountered a species which had evolved on a world with a massive "rain forest" so full of viciously-competing life as to make the Amazon look like a park. This species reproduced asexually; the fetus was intelligent and telepathic, but the process of being born damaged the brain. The adult form then existed mostly as a sort of organic tank to carry and protect the fetus. (Their physiology required the adult to be under attack at all times in order to maintain endocrine-equivalent balance; when the Rhabwar responded to their emergency beacon, the personnel onboard first assumed the device their patient was in was some sort of torture chamber.)

Those are off the top of my head. Give me time to dig into my library, and I can probably find some even more bizarre examples of non-duosexual reproduction. :)


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17 Feb 2009, 12:32 pm

Sexual life on earth is pretty strange too.

The aphid is comprised solely of female membership. Because its maturation rate is so fast, it is routine(that is, omni-present) that gestation of young happens before the mother is born. Think about it. The grandmother aphid has the mother in its reproductive system, and the fetal mother has a proto-reproductive system in development which features young of her own. They give birth less than 11 days after their own birth.

Other species on earth change sex due to environmental stimulus. Sometimes repeatedly.


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Haliphron
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17 Feb 2009, 12:40 pm

Magnus wrote:
Stop yelling Haliphron. You always come in yelling and you don't even know what I'm talking about.


If I were yelling I would type in all caps and use exclaimation points, silly. My use of bold and italics is for the purpose of emphasis-essentially to mimic the inflections of speech.



Sand
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17 Feb 2009, 12:49 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Sand wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Sand: Have you noticed the fact that autotrophic terrestrial organisms, EVEN those that are multicellular, tend to have minimal complexity? The point being that unless they are abiotic sentient machines, we can saftely assume that Aliens are living organisms and DO share some of the very basic characteristics that comprise the definiton of life. I seriously call into question whether its even POSSIBLE for autotrophs to develop the biological complexity required for sentience. Intelligent ETs can be more or less GUARANTEED to be heterotrophic and its also very likely they reproduce sexually.


Although sex is divided here on Earth into male and female there have been speculations by imaginative writers that it may be more elaborate elsewhere. When a planet reaches capacity for supporting life as is approaching rapidly on Earth it might be a wise ploy of evolution that it could require ten or more different sexes to produce an offspring. That could slow reproductive rates considerably.



A. E. van Vogt, in his story Scarlet Discord (later part three of the novel Voyage of the Space Beagle), introduced the Ixtl, with a reproductive cycle based somewhat on the Terrestrial digger wasp; they implant the egg in a paralyzed host, then the young hatches and eats its way out. This was borrowed by Ridley Scott for the movie Alien; Scott was later successfully sued by van Vogt's estate.


I find it fascinating that Scott could be successfully sued for modeling his monster on the life of a wasp and then succumbing to a claim that this well known biological method was used in a Van Vogt story previously to his own use of this natural phenomenon. Who owns the copyright on all natural phenomena?



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17 Feb 2009, 12:54 pm

twoshots wrote:
I would simply like a more concise explanation. You have to realize that it is quite necessary given a finite being to not invest too much time where there is no evident or even intuited prospect of reward, or I'd never get anything done. (I assure you, I'd absolutely love it if aliens were real and I've wished for such often)

Quote:
Do you even realize how pompous this sounds?

It's a carefully honed image 8)


:roll: :roll:



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17 Feb 2009, 3:02 pm

Sand wrote:
DeaconBlues wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Sand wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Sand: Have you noticed the fact that autotrophic terrestrial organisms, EVEN those that are multicellular, tend to have minimal complexity? The point being that unless they are abiotic sentient machines, we can saftely assume that Aliens are living organisms and DO share some of the very basic characteristics that comprise the definiton of life. I seriously call into question whether its even POSSIBLE for autotrophs to develop the biological complexity required for sentience. Intelligent ETs can be more or less GUARANTEED to be heterotrophic and its also very likely they reproduce sexually.


Although sex is divided here on Earth into male and female there have been speculations by imaginative writers that it may be more elaborate elsewhere. When a planet reaches capacity for supporting life as is approaching rapidly on Earth it might be a wise ploy of evolution that it could require ten or more different sexes to produce an offspring. That could slow reproductive rates considerably.



A. E. van Vogt, in his story Scarlet Discord (later part three of the novel Voyage of the Space Beagle), introduced the Ixtl, with a reproductive cycle based somewhat on the Terrestrial digger wasp; they implant the egg in a paralyzed host, then the young hatches and eats its way out. This was borrowed by Ridley Scott for the movie Alien; Scott was later successfully sued by van Vogt's estate.


I find it fascinating that Scott could be successfully sued for modeling his monster on the life of a wasp and then succumbing to a claim that this well known biological method was used in a Van Vogt story previously to his own use of this natural phenomenon. Who owns the copyright on all natural phenomena?

The suit succeeded because the situations were substantially similar - crew of a starship in an isolated location, attacked by an alien egg-layer whose offspring proceeded to eat the host from the inside out and then terrorize the rest of the crew before being defeated and killed.

The subsequent movies, not having the same setup, were not subject to the same ruling.


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17 Feb 2009, 5:20 pm

At the last count - - two minutes ago - although a couple of people moved - there were 6.6 BILLION people on Earth - so let's say there are about 1 billion cameras or mobiles with cameras - how many COMFIRMED pictures have you seen of aliens ?? Answer .. a big fat ZERO ! !



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17 Feb 2009, 5:54 pm

There is exactly one piece of hard evidence that I am aware of that is even remotely suggestive of extraterrestrial intelligence (though of course not of the kind that visits earth): The famed Wow! signal. Still, even that has failed to provide anything further over the course of the last 30 years, so getting one's hopes up isn't a great idea...


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17 Feb 2009, 7:04 pm

Zincubus wrote:
At the last count - - two minutes ago - although a couple of people moved - there were 6.6 BILLION people on Earth - so let's say there are about 1 billion cameras or mobiles with cameras - how many COMFIRMED pictures have you seen of aliens ?? Answer .. a big fat ZERO ! !


WHat would you consider a confirmed UFO pic? Confirmed how?



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17 Feb 2009, 7:58 pm

Nobody will confirm anything. However there are so many witnesses who firmly believe that they saw UFO's and aliens that I can't see how there can't be some truth to it.

http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1156.htm


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17 Feb 2009, 8:22 pm

Magnus wrote:
Nobody will confirm anything. However there are so many witnesses who firmly believe that they saw UFO's and aliens that I can't see how there can't be some truth to it.

http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1156.htm


Where is the evidence? Drunkards claim to see pink elephants. Does that mean pink elephants exist? Where is solid material evidence, such as an artifact that could not be made anywhere on earth? Just because a flying object has not been specifically identified does not mean it is an alien (none terrestrial) thing. As to people who claim to have been abducted, all we have is their word. They might be telling the truth or they might be hallucinating. Use Ockham's razor to choose which one.

ruveyn



Magnus
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17 Feb 2009, 9:21 pm

If they are all hallucinating, I think that is significant and worthy of further investigation.


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