Asperger's/Autism; a spiritual condition?

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I think what really bugs Dussel is the fact that mysticism can't be regulated, tested, and completely understood. This is the nature of it though. Just like no one can completely understand another person completely, you can't understand mysticism. I know it's frustrating to a "logical" mind to accept this because it's so grey. Life is not black and white. Just accept it and tolerate others who have different points of view. We are not robots.

Say that again, please.

Amen to that!

Amen!

Science has this attutude of, "If I don't understand it, it can't possibly exist" which really gets me red in the face because it parallels the religious dogmatism which ostensibly it combats. There's all kinds of dogma.

I didn't know you wrote Emo poetry!

I just wanted to add one more thing. Religions are formed because of the desire to create a standard to which we can measure one's spiritual beliefs and by "logical" minds wanting to fashion a structured way of believing. This is how ideologies get formed that later only serve to brainwash the masses because "mystics" are seen as loonies because they claim to have direct experience with the divine.

Once again, Amen!!

I don't disagree with the existence of a secular society, quite the opposite in fact, despite being an ardent monotheist (it's done more good for us Jews than it has for Christians or Muslims).. but what I do disagree with is this attitude of "God is no longer pragmatic, therefore we don't need Him" or "therefore he doesn't exist".. because it's nonsense to say that science or reason has somehow "disproved" the existence of God.

There's many gaping holes with regards to the origins of the universe and the nature of consciousness that science simply hasn't filled.. in my eyes science is a wonderful thing and merely serves to better illustrate and explain God's creation. Ideas such as the theory of evolution, the documentary hypothesis and "higher" criticism don't shake my faith in the slightest. By no means am I outright disagreeing with any of the notions found within these theories, I'm simply saying to me, they don't disprove the existence of God.

It all brings to my mind the story of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), where humanity is under the impression they've acheived so much and that God is no longer the highest being that exists. So they build a tower that will reach the heavens as a symbol of their own glory and prosperity under the belief that doing so will guarantee peace and harmony amongst mankind. Of course there may be other intentions/themes derived from this narrative... but ultimately the result of the story is the same, just when everything seems like it's worked out alright, God says "nuh uh".

Not the "opium of the masses", please...

That is a real chestnut, isn't it?

The stories in the bible are quite beautiful. Allegories illustrate complex issues simplistically and are often entertaining. I don't know whether to laugh or bang my head up against a wall when these stories are taken literally. It is possible for us to understand the physical laws of earth but once we know everything here, there is still something beyond all this matter.

I think this unknowing/incomprehensible state where we search for the mystery of creation is a state where we really undergo spiritual growth. You can't know and you can't not know. Once you accept this then you grow. I think this is tied into Faith.

Now that I can agree with.

In fact, to follow on from that, I'm going to quote an example of Jewish humour regarding faith..

It's not word for word, but the jist of it is in here..
"Two rabbi's stay up long into the night debating whether God exists or not. After several hours they eventually come to the conclusion, beyond all reasonable doubt, that God does not exist. The following morning one of them sees the other walking into synagogue for morning prayers. He asks him 'What are you doing?! I thought we agreed that God doesn't exist?!' The rabbi turns to him and says, 'What does God have to do with it?'"

Faith in the existence of God, or even just "clinging" to what are too often seen as "outdated", "absurd" beliefs and traditions by others, isn't dependant on being able to PROVE the existence of God. To those of us who do believe regardless of the fact we can't "prove" God's existence to others - at least not in the way it's demanded of us - believing without knowing is testament to our resolve rather than evidence of madness or "brainwashing"..

Last edited by bunny-in-the-moon on 17 Feb 2009, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That is the very antithesis of the scientific approach. If we don't understand something we study and observe it until we do understand it. To this day no one knows the cause of gravitation. We have scientific theories the describe and predict gravitational phenomena, but we do not have a cause. In short gravitation is not fully understood, but no scientific theory denies its existence.

It is clear you have not a clue to what science is or how scientists work.

ruveyn

If that's the case, then how can "science" be used as a vehicle to "disprove" the existence of God in a debate? If the true scientific approach ultimately leads to acknowledging that science can come up against phenomena it can't fully explain, then surely slowmutant's point still stands?

Respect to Magnus and alba for making some decent posts.

One cannot disprove the proposition "God exists" since it has no empirical content whatsoever. It is not even wrong.

ruveyn