10 Aug 2007, 2:58 pm
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Your logic is flawed. You just draw the lines where you want them, or where you happen to honestly see that they go -- neither of which makes you correct. You could just as easily say that women should be allowed to go into occupied men's restrooms and use the urinals -- "'cause after all, MEN are allowed to! No fair!" Such logic leads to a mess -- in more ways than one.
\you know... if people could all respect one another.... there would be absolutely no need for sep sex bathrooms. did adam and eve need them?
that's the issue here... repsecting everyone. you're not cause god says not to
And also because it affects other people - it would be dangerous to allow men into women's toilets. Whereas allowing me to marry a woman doesn't harm any straight people.
Not in any ways you care to think about, no, but then you've made clear that you don't "give a f**k what they want" when it comes to conflicting with what you want the right to do.
In what way? I want everyone to have the same rights.
10 Aug 2007, 2:59 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:00 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:02 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:02 pm
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
JoeCapricorn wrote:
Fifty pages...
And no one has presented any logical reason why gay marriage should be banned. No one has presented any logical reason why gay rights should be limited.
The closest is Ragtime's religious arguments, but in countries where religion does not dictate the law (The United States for example), that argument isn't even constitutional. (I.E. Banning gay marriage because it goes against the Bible violates freedom of religion and the establishment clause - there are even Christian churches that support gay marriage)
Otherwise every argument made against gay people has been easily debunked. 50 pages of all that.
And no one has presented any logical reason why gay marriage should be banned. No one has presented any logical reason why gay rights should be limited.
The closest is Ragtime's religious arguments, but in countries where religion does not dictate the law (The United States for example), that argument isn't even constitutional. (I.E. Banning gay marriage because it goes against the Bible violates freedom of religion and the establishment clause - there are even Christian churches that support gay marriage)
Otherwise every argument made against gay people has been easily debunked. 50 pages of all that.
Wow. An unconvincably biased person is still unconvinced that gay marriage is wrong.
Ya, that's pretty suprising, Joe.well when the opposing said cannot directly say WHY.... why should they suddenly switch?
we have provided lots of WHY NOTS (why homo. is not wrong)
but so far for why it's wrong... whe have:
cause god says so
Again, you can stop after reaching that reason, because for any true Christian, what God says goes, period. This thread solicited opinions on homosexuality. I gave mine, and explained why I am 100% against it. Now, if you don't respect God's authority, that's another issue altogether. The fact remains that I have given my answer regarding the issue. If you wish to disrespect God and my religion, that also makes no difference in the subject of this thread. Start another Christ-bashing thread if that's what you want to do.
im not a christian basher........ just a basher of stupid blind people who accept hate
But that's how you view Christians -- you've written such many times.
Then that doesn't mean she bashes you because you're a Christian. She bashes you because she thinks you're stupid/blind. And you just happen to be a Christian.
Well, likewise, I'm not against you because you're attracted to women, I'm against your blindness in thinking it's right. And I don't "bash" people. To do so is a personal attack -- I'm only attacking your beliefs.
Last edited by Ragtime on 10 Aug 2007, 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Aug 2007, 3:03 pm
Sedaka
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10 Aug 2007, 3:03 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:05 pm
Sedaka
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10 Aug 2007, 3:06 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:06 pm
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
We're unconvinced because you haven't provided any decent arguments in support of your position.
No, you decide by feelings rather than by truth.
That's not true actually. Even if I was straight I would have this exact same view. I arrived at this conclusion logically. It is discrimination. If you weren't allowed to marry anyone you would ever want to be with then I would think that was wrong as well. Again, please stop making unfounded assumptions about me or anyone else who disagrees with you.
I am straight, if anyone wants to really know
and I have the same view, so thise feelings rather than truth, doesn't apply to me, and I believe Sopho's arguments are a lot more reasonable and logical than Ragtime's and Hadron's views.
Last edited by greenblue on 10 Aug 2007, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Aug 2007, 3:07 pm
10 Aug 2007, 3:08 pm
Sedaka
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Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,597
Location: In the recesses of my mind
10 Aug 2007, 3:11 pm
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
But people don't suddenly turn into a man when they reach a particular age,
Well, depends on where you draw the line, I guess.
Women get more masculine and men get more feminine as they age.Masculine... feminine... whatever. They don't turn into a man. However masculine they are, they still can't marry each other.
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Everyone at some point in their life is a kid and (assuming they reach the average life expectancy etc.) becomes an adult. Different.
Yes, "different", but these differences are merely circumstantial.
The differences between paedophilia and homosexuality are 'circumstantial' are they?
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I wasn't allowed to marry when I was 8, neither were you. You can marry the woman you want to be with. I never will be able to. The age law is there to protect kids from perverts.
So, who judges them to be perverts? Why are they perverts if, like a woman's lust for a woman, it's just always been natural to them? You're being awfully judgmental of perversions for someone advocating what most people still think is.
Because they're harming kids.
On what atheistic basis, when its consentual? I do believe it harms kids, but I believe that because of my Christian views. I don't see where you can get that true belief from your atheism.
Sopho wrote:
Just like rape is wrong, it's wrong to f**k a child.
Not the same, when the latter is consentual. Both are still wrong, but not because they are identical, as you claim.
Sopho wrote:
Those laws preventing adults from marrying kids are designed to PROTECT people (children). Who needs protecting from gay marriage?
Everyone else.
so why is it that the age of marriage has generally gone up?
and i find it interesting that you are either saying that it's the relgion of the perve and/or the kid that makes the sex a sin (or crime , w/e for this purpose)... well religion of society or w/e....... relgion has nothing to do with it
wow
and somehow as strange as these views are... it makes christianity seem so ritcheous... not saying that i dont like some of the morals....
but relgion has nothing to do with why it is wrong
10 Aug 2007, 3:14 pm
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
But people don't suddenly turn into a man when they reach a particular age,
Well, depends on where you draw the line, I guess.
Women get more masculine and men get more feminine as they age.Masculine... feminine... whatever. They don't turn into a man. However masculine they are, they still can't marry each other.
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Everyone at some point in their life is a kid and (assuming they reach the average life expectancy etc.) becomes an adult. Different.
Yes, "different", but these differences are merely circumstantial.
The differences between paedophilia and homosexuality are 'circumstantial' are they?
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I wasn't allowed to marry when I was 8, neither were you. You can marry the woman you want to be with. I never will be able to. The age law is there to protect kids from perverts.
So, who judges them to be perverts? Why are they perverts if, like a woman's lust for a woman, it's just always been natural to them? You're being awfully judgmental of perversions for someone advocating what most people still think is.
Because they're harming kids.
On what atheistic basis, when its consentual? I do believe it harms kids, but I believe that because of my Christian views. I don't see where you can get that true belief from your atheism.
Sopho wrote:
Just like rape is wrong, it's wrong to f**k a child.
Not the same, when the latter is consentual. Both are still wrong, but not because they are identical, as you claim.
Sopho wrote:
Those laws preventing adults from marrying kids are designed to PROTECT people (children). Who needs protecting from gay marriage?
Everyone else.
1. It harms kids because it's getting them involved in something they're too young to understand. An 8 year old shouldn't be having sex. The only adults that children should have relationships with are their family and teachers etc., that kind of relationship, not a sexual one. And I don't get any of my morals from atheism. I get them from myself. I don't follow atheism like a religion or set of rules.
And getting that moral from yourself is humanism. Good, I'm glad we've found that you're a humanist. Atheism has no moral code, but humanism most definitely does, to the extent that it's a religion. So here we are, religion against religion.
Sopho wrote:
2.It's non consensual though. Kids can't consent. And I never said they were identical. I made the point that they're both sex with someone who isn't consenting.
As defined by law. The law also defines marriage as between one man and one woman.
Sopho wrote:
3. How does me marrying a woman in any way harm you? And if it does, then I can just as easily say that you marrying a woman harms me. But I'm not stupid enough to do that, because I know other people's relationships don't have any affect on me.
In various ways, but that's not the point, since you've already stated that your own rights are important enough to you to tread down on Christian rights. So you're clearly a narcisist, and thereby unconsidering of any harm to others so long as it means you're getting what you want.
10 Aug 2007, 3:17 pm
greenblue wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
We're unconvinced because you haven't provided any decent arguments in support of your position.
No, you decide by feelings rather than by truth.
That's not true actually. Even if I was straight I would have this exact same view. I arrived at this conclusion logically. It is discrimination. If you weren't allowed to marry anyone you would ever want to be with then I would think that was wrong as well. Again, please stop making unfounded assumptions about me or anyone else who disagrees with you.
I am straight, if anyone wants to really know
and I have the same view, so thise feelings rather than truth, doesn't apply to me, and I believe Sopho's arguments are a lot more reasonable and logical than Ragtime's and Hadron's views.
Because you are choosing to be totally biased... You are not even considering myselfs and Ragtimes arguements. Do you have nothing better to do that snip innanely at the sidelines?
Sedaka
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10 Aug 2007, 3:17 pm
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Your logic is flawed. You just draw the lines where you want them, or where you happen to honestly see that they go -- neither of which makes you correct. You could just as easily say that women should be allowed to go into occupied men's restrooms and use the urinals -- "'cause after all, MEN are allowed to! No fair!" Such logic leads to a mess -- in more ways than one.
\you know... if people could all respect one another.... there would be absolutely no need for sep sex bathrooms. did adam and eve need them?
that's the issue here... repsecting everyone. you're not cause god says not to
That's not the issue at all. The dignity of man was created by God, by Him making man in His image. Therefore, He said, people should not kill each other, because it's an offense in the sight of God to see people in His image killing each other. The problem is when people say to Christians: "I don't care what you're God says. Now respect me!"
that'll happen when you actually acknowelge that some people have a right to different beliefs than you and that we all share the same planet
and that does have to do with the issue cause you made the bathroom analogy as a reason for why things should be kept how they are.... why a marriage should be man and women... your example was supposed to show what would happen if we allowed everyone to mix together......
which is why i said what i said...
think think think plz
