President Donald Trump!
However it would be naive (and a little generous) to give the founding fathers leeway over the contradictions between their philosophy and the way they treated their fellow man. For instance the second paragraph in the Declaration of Independence states, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
Despite this "enlightened" way of thinking both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson kept slaves and indeed made a lot of money from slave labour on their plantations. Jefferson was a paedophile who raped his teenage house slave making her pregnant on numerous occasions. Neither Jefferson or Washington believed the declaration of independence applied to non-white people, women, homosexuals or people who were not christians. This indicates a level of hippocracy in what they believed a human being was in terms of civil/human rights. This is not really very enlightened at all...
Without addressing your specific charges, some of which I consider highly dubious: their vices were of their time, their virtues were specifically theirs. I prefer to honor them for their achievements – which indirectly includes much that is good about the history of civilization since their time, and our modern understanding of individual rights – rather than castigating them for not living up to 2016 standards in every respect.
How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?
- Samuel Johnson, 1775
This translates to; How is it that we hear the loudest crys for freedom from the slavers of blacks? Johnson was of course referring to the woeful double standards of Washington and Jefferson...Jefferson in particular was a highly intelligent individual could not have ignored this blatant conflict of interest. I put this down to personal greed, they simply relied too much on slaves to make a living but carried the prevailing prejudice of the time. In this respect the British are far more enlightened than the early American colonies given they outlawed the slave trade in 1807...
"In this respect the British are far more enlightened than the early American colonies given they outlawed the slave trade in 1807..."
OUCH!! ! ! How many times have I heard this crip???
Please just take a moment or two to review Wikipedia (or other source) for an explanation of The British Raj (and other colonizing schemes). This is the system by which England held millions in slavery, forced drugs down their throats, and killed them indiscriminately, while British "noblemen" and "noble women" danced and starved the Irish and ETC!
These "far more enlightened" English learned it was cheaper to keep their slaves in the country they wanted them to work in, to grow and process (for example) molasses. Much cheaper just to ship the products home than move slaves around.
England, being relatively small, did a bang up job in their "colonialism" (read as slavery) efforts, killing many thousands, ALL OVER THE WORLD.
"far more enlightened" ???? I don't think so. In fact what comes to my mind when I think of this is an old movie clip shown on TV that showed Nazi men and women partying and dancing as though the husbands didn't go to work every day and kill Jews. These people partied as though it were the most natural and wonderful thing in the world. As did English during the vicious reign of colonialism, vestiges of which they attempt to preserve (and deny) even today.
rant: off
Didn't the English refer to it as "The White Man's Burden"?Colonialism is really hard work,I mean you have to get out there and look for people to exploit.
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I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
Kraichgauer
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That would have been the the likes of Russian nobles holding most of the people in bondage of serfdom, which meant holding - and exercising - absolute power of life and death over them. Or the Hessian princes grabbing thousands of ordinary men from their farms and towns, putting them in uniform, putting them through boot camp, then selling their "services" to the British to fight the American rebels, which was an arrangement in which said princes and nobles got the cash, while the common folk forced to do the fighting got the bullets.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
YES to both of your comments. During this colonialism period it wasn't "polite" to bring up such subjects in England. In fact, recently, I've been accused of being "anti-English" in this forum just for stating facts if I mention there is a "downside" to English history (all while the accusing poster is semi-secretly agreeing that what I say is true). Go figure.
auntblabby
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That would have been the the likes of Russian nobles holding most of the people in bondage of serfdom, which meant holding - and exercising - absolute power of life and death over them. Or the Hessian princes grabbing thousands of ordinary men from their farms and towns, putting them in uniform, putting them through boot camp, then selling their "services" to the British to fight the American rebels, which was an arrangement in which said princes and nobles got the cash, while the common folk forced to do the fighting got the bullets.
I get bit of satisfaction visualizing those Russian ignobles and hessian princes barbequing in hell right now.
These "far more enlightened" English learned it was cheaper to keep their slaves in the country they wanted them to work in, to grow and process (for example) molasses. Much cheaper just to ship the products home than move slaves around.England, being relatively small, did a bang up job in their "colonialism" (read as slavery) efforts, killing many thousands, ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Britain is responsible for bringing countries like India and China from a collection of medieval states to becoming modern industrialized nations. In his biography Lee Kuan Yew attributes Singapore, Taiwan and Japan's rise to become 1st world economic tigers to the influence of the British empire. I see the rise in quality of life for populations in these countries as positive attributes/influences.
Yes in addition Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, reported the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 representing what he calls a"vast genocide" on a scale that can only be described as mass murder...
Again the declaration of equality of men didn't apply to Indians...
Kraichgauer
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That would have been the the likes of Russian nobles holding most of the people in bondage of serfdom, which meant holding - and exercising - absolute power of life and death over them. Or the Hessian princes grabbing thousands of ordinary men from their farms and towns, putting them in uniform, putting them through boot camp, then selling their "services" to the British to fight the American rebels, which was an arrangement in which said princes and nobles got the cash, while the common folk forced to do the fighting got the bullets.
I get bit of satisfaction visualizing those Russian ignobles and hessian princes barbequing in hell right now.
I'm sure they are.
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Kraichgauer
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Yes in addition Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, reported the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 representing what he calls a"vast genocide" on a scale that can only be described as mass murder...
Again the declaration of equality of men didn't apply to Indians...
And yet, Rush Limbaugh has claimed there are more Native Americans alive today than in the time of Columbus. What a D-bag!

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Meistersinger
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I see you're wearing your brown shirt today.
GO BENTLEY! GO BENTLEY! GO BENTLEY!
VOTE DOPEYCRATS 2016!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_jfK ... HF4Q1NmcmM
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,245
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

I see you're wearing your brown shirt today.
GO BENTLEY! GO BENTLEY! GO BENTLEY!
VOTE DOPEYCRATS 2016!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_jfK ... HF4Q1NmcmM
YAY
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I wouldn't say the American Revolution prolonged slavery, circumstances unique to the slave economy in the US ensured that no matter what happened. In the US believe it or not they did take care of their slaves relative to the Spanish or Portugese or even the British slave colonies in the Caribbean, the living conditions in these places were much tougher and generally these slaves would be worked to death with in years I think mostly harvesting sugarcane. They weren't imported with their families, they were disposable. In the US slaves picked mostly cotton, tobacco and rice to a lesser degree. Cotton is very labor intensive but requires a year-round workforce which needed to be housed and taken care of to some degree as they were considered a large investment, tobacco is way less labor intensive and slaves in these areas were more likely to work alongside Europeans and be allowed to have families. Rice harvesting was unique as it was a skill primarily possessed by the African women not the men, it was a crop they didn't have as much success in but gave more reason for the importation of African women which was unique compared to other slave societies. Slavery evolved in America into it's final chattel form, it was more company owned slaves and indentured servitude at the beginning with the hope of one day working your way to freedom. The Revolution gave way to a lot of manumission, more so than would of happened otherwise. Basically the US had a huge domestic slave population because it didn't work its slaves to death like the Portuguese or Spanish who imported far more slaves from Africa to their colonies but the profits from sugar were high enough to make them disposable. In the US, the huge population of the slaves became reason in itself to continue the institution given that they couldn't fathom what to do after.
Last edited by Jacoby on 19 Mar 2016, 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, it was probably better for some slaves in North America than it was in the Caribbean or South America.
Try telling that to somebody under involuntary servitude, though, who had just gotten whipped for not picking enough cotton in Georgia.
We weren't kind to the Native Americans in the past---both with foreknowledge and without it. In many cases, our treatment of Native Americans still sucks.
But we have to move on from history.
To get this tread back to mr. Trump here is a piece written by the paleoconservative Paul Gottfried about whether or not the Donald could dislodge the neocons and end their hold on American foreign policy.
Unfortunately, I expect none of this to happen. Indeed it would not surprise me if the neocons exhibited the staying power of the Egyptian New Kingdom, which ruled Egypt for five hundred years (1570-1070 BC) despite such occasional setbacks as military defeats. What neoconservative publicists are now doing when they bait and switch, does not seem different from what they did in the past. Prominent neocons have not consistently taken the side of eventually victorious Republican presidential candidates. In 1972 Nathan Glazer, Daniel Bell and other neocon heavyweights backed McGovern against Nixon, yet neocon and Democrat Daniel Moynihan carried great weight in the Nixon administration. In the presidential primaries in 1976 Irving Kristol and most other Republican neocons backed Gerald Ford against Ronald Reagan; nonetheless, after Reagan’s victory in 1980 neoconservatives William Bennett and Eliot Abrams came to play highly visible roles in the Republican administration.
Conceivably even if Robert Kagan and his friends support Hillary Clinton against Trump, they would still remain prominent, well-connected “conservatives.” The neoconservatives’ power and influence do not depend on their willingness to march in lockstep with the GOP. Their power base extends into both parties; and if most neocons are currently identified with the “moderate” wing of the GOP, providing their political ambitions are met and their foreign policy is carried out, other recognizable neocons like William Galston, Kagan’s wife Victoria Nuland, and Ann Applebaum have identified strongly with Democratic administrations. Neoconservatives will not likely cease to be part of the political and journalistic establishment, even if some in their ranks chose to back Hillary against the Donald.
(...)
I told you all about 4 months ago that the US Republicans should have taken this bigot more seriously.
Imagine Trump responsible for the most powerful nation on earth. he is visibly all Id and Ego.
God obviously speaks directly to him as there is no other explanation for his intransigent self belief...
Caligula will ride again
Getting scared yet....... ?
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