Liberals: Should Muslims bomb Israel?

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Master_Pedant
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09 Jun 2009, 11:09 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

it is fine to learn from the past, so long as you don't get stuck in it, and come back to the present.

Just in case it's your impression (as it was, indeed, my mistaken inital impression) that he's a defender of Israel on the grounds of far stretching historical injustice: he isn't.

Laconvivencia
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10 Jun 2009, 1:37 am

Hashberry wrote:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

The whole thing that pisses me off about the fighting between Palestine and Israel is the fact that it is based on religion. Both Muslim and Jews say that the land was given to them by god...

HELLO!! ! You both worship the same god! Which means god gave the land to both of you and you should be getting along. But nooooo.... it's all about the prophets.... I guess god doesn't count anymore.

Idiots. Get rid of religion in the middle east, and you will have peace.

Where on earth did you get that from? True the Jews believe it was given by god to them and that they are the "chosen people" - read superior..The Palestinians have NEVER said God gave it to them any more than any other people living in the land their ancestors have lived in for milenia.

Thus - Zionist Jews believe God gave it to them whereas the Palestinians are fighting for THEIR homeland and their ancestors. Nothing to do with religion on their part.

Is the EArth in the centre of the universe?

Hashberry
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10 Jun 2009, 4:03 am

Laconvivencia wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Is the EArth in the centre of the universe?

What do you do with thieves? Do you say it is their god given right to steal?

Quatermass
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10 Jun 2009, 4:38 am

Hashberry wrote:

Laconvivencia wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Is the EArth in the centre of the universe?

What do you do with thieves? Do you say it is their god given right to steal?

What do you do with murderers? Both sides have been guilty.

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Hashberry
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10 Jun 2009, 4:44 am

Quatermass wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Laconvivencia wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Is the EArth in the centre of the universe?

What do you do with thieves? Do you say it is their god given right to steal?

What do you do with murderers? Both sides have been guilty.

One side started it look back at history and see how evil they went about it.

Hashberry
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10 Jun 2009, 4:46 am

Quatermass you are leagues beyond me im never sure whether you are being Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic or being straight.

DrizzleMan
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10 Jun 2009, 5:18 am

Speaking of thieves, the Arab nations are currently sitting on property belonging to expelled Jews which adds up to four times the size of Israel. Some Israelis believe they're just getting their own back.

However even if it were "just" to take land 60 years later, it would be wrong to punish the Palestinians for the crimes of the other Arab nations.

I think Obama has the right idea. The only good solution is two states so that both peoples can enjoy self determination. It may not be a "just" solution, but there are more important things than "justice", which many people use as a synonym for "revenge".

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Hashberry
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10 Jun 2009, 5:50 am

DrizzleMan wrote:

However even if it were "just" to take land 60 years later, it would be wrong to punish the Palestinians for the crimes of the other Arab nations.

Lol so is it not a hell of a lot less unjust than taking land on premises based on TWO THOUSAND years ago? How about if it was say 10 years would that make ownership 9/10ths of the law?

Hashberry
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10 Jun 2009, 5:54 am

Besides any one with sense would see that the Palestinians have not a hope of reclaiming all of Palestine from the nuclear armed fanatic terrorist Zionists.

Quatermass
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10 Jun 2009, 5:57 am

Hashberry wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

What do you do with murderers? Both sides have been guilty.

One side started it look back at history and see how evil they went about it.

Of course. The Christians did it first. And here is a lovely example of what they did.

Hashberry wrote:

Quatermass you are leagues beyond me im never sure whether you are being Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic or being straight.

To quote KC and the Sunshine Band, that's the way I like it.

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0_equals_true
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10 Jun 2009, 6:04 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

it is fine to learn from the past, so long as you don't get stuck in it, and come back to the present.

Just in case it's your impression (as it was, indeed, my mistaken inital impression) that he's a defender of Israel on the grounds of far stretching historical injustice: he isn't.

No I am aware of his views. You should see his dating requirements. Like I said I am only met a few who’s obsession hast to apply to absolutely everything. I think programming is great, but even I conceded it doesn't apply to everything.

I am not a Zionist either, but I don't think it would be worthwhile remove Israel altogether now. The mistake ha already happened. I support two state. I think there can be remodelling of the land. Not for some religious reason but practical. Every nation need a minimum of resources to survive. Gaza certainly doesn't and West Bank doesn't while it is like swiss cheese due to settlements. Also Gaza cannot exist in its existing forma at all. it is totally dependent that is the grand apartheid that I talk about. There will be no East Pakistan/Bangladesh. Both side need to realise that border will have to change.

It would make sense to give both access to the sea especially the Mediterranean and also other borders. So really there is going to have to be a turn style point, there is not getting round of that fact. If you look at the geography it would make four large pieces of land interlocked. In other words two each.

Laconvivencia
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10 Jun 2009, 6:17 am

Hashberry wrote:

Laconvivencia wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Is the EArth in the centre of the universe?

What do you do with thieves? Do you say it is their god given right to steal?

I am sayng that a Jewish state cannot be in Palestine or any other Muslim Country, America should give its own Land away if it is willing to give a state to the Jews, not take some land from the Middle east.

ruveyn
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10 Jun 2009, 9:08 am

Hashberry wrote:

Besides any one with sense would see that the Palestinians have not a hope of reclaiming all of Palestine from the nuclear armed fanatic terrorist Zionists.

That fact that the Zionists have not already wiped the Palestinians out is proof that they are not fanatic. At least not as fanatic as the folks from Hamas.

ruveyn

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10 Jun 2009, 10:18 am

ruveyn wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Besides any one with sense would see that the Palestinians have not a hope of reclaiming all of Palestine from the nuclear armed fanatic terrorist Zionists.

That fact that the Zionists have not already wiped the Palestinians out is proof that they are not fanatic. At least not as fanatic as the folks from Hamas.

ruveyn

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Valid point, R.

Three things certain in the world: Hate, Death and War. Even if the Muslims do not bomb Israel, there are always the North Koreans.

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10 Jun 2009, 11:33 am

Quatermass wrote:

Hashberry wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

What do you do with murderers? Both sides have been guilty.

One side started it look back at history and see how evil they went about it.

Of course. The Christians did it first. And here is a lovely example of what they did.

Actually, the Muslims did it first. The Crusades were a response to centuries of Muslim conquest, as the Muslims were getting closer and closer to the Byzantine Empire and this scared the Byzantines.

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0_equals_true
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10 Jun 2009, 11:42 am

Orwell wrote:

Actually, the Muslims did it first. The Crusades were a response to centuries of Muslim conquest, as the Muslims were getting closer and closer to the Byzantine Empire and this scared the Byzantines.

Muslim expansionism is not that different from Christian expansionism at the time, except for the fact that the Christian were less united and organised about it so therefore less good at it.

The Diaspora of Christians and Jews from the holy land had started before the Muslims go there.

The Crusades weren’t just against Muslim lands there were other campaigns, Barbarians, Tartars, etc, etc.

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