Florida Christians protest atheist billboard

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Sand
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17 Aug 2009, 7:26 am

sinsboldly wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

I have the same problem with Atheists as I do with Christians, and that is both consider their way the only way.

Atheists do not have a specific way. Atheists are defined negatively as those who reject a belief in a creator, central God who created everything and commands everything. Among atheists you find a variety of political and social beliefs. Some are pro-capitalist. Some are socialist. Some are collectivist. Both Stalin and Christopher Hitchen are atheists, yet they are so very different.

ruveyn

I see that you, as well as other posters, have missed my whole point. Being an Atheist pre supposes anyone that believes differently from their THEIST beliefs (or lack of them) are misinformed, ignorant of the facts or just plain wrong.

Since when is it reprehensible to consider someone just plain wrong? Do not people of faith consider atheists just plain wrong?

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17 Aug 2009, 7:29 am

sinsboldly wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

I have the same problem with Atheists as I do with Christians, and that is both consider their way the only way.

So do theists. :roll:

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monty
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17 Aug 2009, 12:39 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Both Stalin and Christopher Hitchen are atheists, yet they are so very different.

Hmmm ... are you sure about that?

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17 Aug 2009, 1:30 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

I have the same problem with Atheists as I do with Christians, and that is both consider their way the only way.

For a minute there, I almost thought you were claiming atheists were absolutist about life styles or moralities. But it appears you're making the much more epistemic charge that atheists think they're correct about the nonexistence of God and that theists (for a variety of reasons) are wrong about the existence of God.

If you're claiming that's being stern, I'm sorry to say, but when two positions are mutually incompatible, one or the other (and sometimes both) have to be wrong. When it comes to existence, its generally the case that something either exists or it doesn't.

I see no better way of dealing with this issue than claiming that someone has to be wrong. If we claim that all beliefs are "equally true" we go into epistemic relativism and lose any working concept of (small-t) truth.

And, generally, all but a few ultra-militant atheists claim that theists are morally depraved. You don't see atheists going to people's car and taking pictures of bumper stickers then proclaiming that they represent what "the devil offered to Adam and Eve, 'you shall become as gods...'" or some secular equivalent (come to think of it, I cannot really thing of anything an atheist would conceivably say that associates disagreement with vanity and ultimate evil as much as this).

In fact, I think that's because while atheists in general aren't epistemic relativists and postmodernists, and some may be a bit overconfident in making certain claims, they lack a belief in the ultimate end all be all capital-T Truth that fundamentalists have. They lack sheer certitude.

Can you please give my your way of holding or at least maintaining that mutually incompatible beliefs can both be true?

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17 Aug 2009, 3:01 pm

I'd join the Christians on this one.

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gina-ghettoprincess
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17 Aug 2009, 3:29 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

So you think it's wrong for the non-religious to be able to feel accepted in what is supposed to be a secular society?

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Master_Pedant
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17 Aug 2009, 3:38 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

So you think it's wrong for the non-religious to be able to feel accepted in what is supposed to be a secular society?

What you have to understand is that the above poster is notoriously an anti-atheist biogt. Furthermore, I'd have to say that in general she's the Anne Coulter of this form and it's best not to try reasoning with her.

Henriksson
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17 Aug 2009, 6:20 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

Oh come on, when we chat with each other on MSN, do I seem like a completely 'bad' person to you?

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gina-ghettoprincess
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17 Aug 2009, 6:26 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

So you think it's wrong for the non-religious to be able to feel accepted in what is supposed to be a secular society?

Ah yes. I vaguely remember encountering her before.

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18 Aug 2009, 11:22 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

So you think it's wrong for the non-religious to be able to feel accepted in what is supposed to be a secular society?

Ok #1 I am not a bigot of any type. I'm just a messenger of the truth that you reject constantly.

#2 I don't like Anne Coulter so I would appreciate if you didn't compare me to that crazy lady.

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Shadowgirl
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18 Aug 2009, 11:24 am

Henriksson wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

Oh come on, when we chat with each other on MSN, do I seem like a completely 'bad' person to you?

Of course not.

This is nothing against you its just you know...differences in views is all.

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Sand
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18 Aug 2009, 11:25 am

Shadowgirl wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'd join the Christians on this one.

So you think it's wrong for the non-religious to be able to feel accepted in what is supposed to be a secular society?

Ok #1 I am not a bigot of any type. I'm just a messenger of the truth that you reject constantly.

#2 I don't like Anne Coulter so I would appreciate if you didn't compare me to that crazy lady.

Nobody accused you of being a bigot. You are obviously a biogt. If you don't know what that is you're in trouble.

gina-ghettoprincess
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18 Aug 2009, 11:39 am

If you believe that the billboard shouldn't be allowed because it teaches acceptance of people who don't believe what you believe, then you are a bigot.

If you are merely siding with the Christians by default, that is rather ignorant.

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18 Aug 2009, 2:39 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

If you are merely siding with the Christians by default, that is rather ignorant.

How is that ignorant? She is a Christian, so what's wrong with siding with them by default?

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gina-ghettoprincess
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18 Aug 2009, 2:53 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

If you are merely siding with the Christians by default, that is rather ignorant.

How is that ignorant? She is a Christian, so what's wrong with siding with them by default?

Because that's just like anyone automatically siding with their own "group" without verifying the facts. Like if a white person said that they would automatically assume that whites are correct and everyone else is wrong, or if a black person said blacks are always correct, etc, etc.

I am an atheist, but I don't automatically assume that if someone is an atheist I have to take their side. I'm not going to defend Stalin just because he was also an atheist.

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18 Aug 2009, 3:02 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

And I don't defend creationists just because they're Christians. But if I see an atheist arguing with a Christian about something, I will probably be on the side of the Christian by default. If it turns out the Christian is arguing for creationism, I'd end up switching sides, of course.

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