Evolution vs Baraminology: the empirical showdown.
New age, hmmm, the genre seems different than the mysticism though, or at least it is not related now, I think most "new age" musicians dislike that term and prefer "easy listening". And yeah, well, I have heard some things related to it, as well as rythms and the heart activity, which I can't really say about that, and the Mozart effect which I'm very skeptic about it, all of this would be interesting in another thread, but we are getting a bit off topic

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AngelRho
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New age, hmmm, the genre seems different than the mysticism though, or at least it is not related now, I think most "new age" musicians dislike that term and prefer "easy listening". And yeah, well, I have heard some things related to it, as well as rythms and the heart activity, which I can't really say about that, and the Mozart effect which I'm very skeptic about it, all of this would be interesting in another thread, but we are getting a bit off topic

New Age music is closely tied in with mysticism, just not as imposing as, say, actually reading a book on "healing" and wasting money on quartz crystals. A lot of it is just cheese, but every now and then you get some good stuff. David Lanz is my all-time favorite, but I also like George Winston (who actually ENCOURAGES improvisation to aspiring New Age pianists covering his work), and Suzanne Ciani (who isn't "typical" of New Agers, but still good stuff). Another guy I like is David Arkenstone, and his stuff is full-on New Age. His "Atlantis" album, I thought, was really nice.
Quite simple. Record the same piece performed at different intonation standards. Play a random recording to your research subject, and record your observations of their reaction. Don't check to see which version they listened to until after you have recorded all of your observations (it could help to have someone else managing the playback, so you don't see it at all until after cataloging everyone's reaction). Maybe do 10 or so different pitch standards, observe approximately 10 people listening to each one, you need somewhere around 100 people for a very crude study.
The former is false, the latter is true. Anecdotal data can only informally point you towards a possible area to look at... it cannot be taken seriously purely on its own grounds.
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That sucks. Hope the weather there wasn't as warm as it was here.
Probably warmer; I'm in Miami.
Temperature in the upper 80's to mid 90's with near 100% relative humidity?
It's warmer here, and I just spent the past week outside carrying a sousaphone. Managed to get sunburn even through my SPF 90 sunscreen.
All right, this weekend I hope to finalize the dataset. Time to clarify the exact species being studied. For simplicity, let's stick to mostly within class Aves. I'm looking for ideally 15-20 species total to examine, but I will accept up to 30. I think I want to have 5-8 representatives each of three different "kinds" in the baraminology sense, plus either a fourth kind with several members or a smattering of other species that don't necessarily fall in the same kind.
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That sucks. Hope the weather there wasn't as warm as it was here.
Probably warmer; I'm in Miami.
Temperature in the upper 80's to mid 90's with near 100% relative humidity?
It's warmer here, and I just spent the past week outside carrying a sousaphone. Managed to get sunburn even through my SPF 90 sunscreen.
All right, this weekend I hope to finalize the dataset. Time to clarify the exact species being studied. For simplicity, let's stick to mostly within class Aves. I'm looking for ideally 15-20 species total to examine, but I will accept up to 30. I think I want to have 5-8 representatives each of three different "kinds" in the baraminology sense, plus either a fourth kind with several members or a smattering of other species that don't necessarily fall in the same kind.
I would consider all parrots to be of the same "kind" or holobaramin. But to make specific requests:
Parrot Kind (Psittacus)
The cockatiel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockatiel
The budgerigar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budgerigar
The african grey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Grey_Parrot
The kakapo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo
The kea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea
A macaw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaw
A lorikeet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lories_and_lorikeets
A conure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conure
Finch Kind (Passer)
A "true finch": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finch
A canary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary
A sparrow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparrow
A black-capped "chickadee-dee-dee": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-capped_Chickadee
A shrike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laniidae
Duck kind (Antidae)
A duck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck
A goose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose
A loon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon
A swan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swan
A shelduck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Shelduck
Pigeon/dove kind
Columba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columba_%28genus%29
Turtur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtur
Zenaida: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenaida_doves
Gallicolumba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallicolumba
Imperial Pigeon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial-pigeon
Pick which ones you want which are available to you, I think I gave you the basic criteria for selection though. Within evolutionary taxonomy, a holobaramin is approximated by either an order or a family and they preferably should look morphologically similar.
The former is false, the latter is true. Anecdotal data can only informally point you towards a possible area to look at... it cannot be taken seriously purely on its own grounds.
Actually, anecdotal data is data. It just isn't scientifically relevant data. Let's just say that you have a friend who bought a new soda: Zippee. Well, his opinion is data, and data that you might use when deciding whether to buy that soda or not for yourself. It just isn't scientific data. However, if it lacked useful informational content altogether, then it couldn't even be a springboard.
The former is false, the latter is true. Anecdotal data can only informally point you towards a possible area to look at... it cannot be taken seriously purely on its own grounds.
Actually, anecdotal data is data. It just isn't scientifically relevant data. Let's just say that you have a friend who bought a new soda: Zippee. Well, his opinion is data, and data that you might use when deciding whether to buy that soda or not for yourself. It just isn't scientific data. However, if it lacked useful informational content altogether, then it couldn't even be a springboard.
Anecdotal Data is relavent to the extent that it leads to a properly refined and controlled set of observation. In a journey, the first step is just as important as the last.
ruveyn
I dunno, what would you suggest? My first instinct would be to throw in a reptile; probably a crocodile or something.
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I dunno, what would you suggest? My first instinct would be to throw in a reptile; probably a crocodile or something.
Birds are endothermic though, as are mammals, whereas reptiles are exothermic. Why not have a comparison between the birds and humans?
I dunno, what would you suggest? My first instinct would be to throw in a reptile; probably a crocodile or something.
Birds are endothermic though, as are mammals, whereas reptiles are exothermic. Why not have a comparison between the birds and humans?
Endothermic/exothermic is a bit of a simplification of what actually happens, and it's not really an either/or. Modern taxonomy places birds within the reptile group, actually, whereas mammals split off from that lineage much earlier. I think it's fairly common to take crocodiles as an outgroup when doing phylogenetic analysis on birds.
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a closer outgroup would be a hoatzin or a ratite like the emu, and a further one might be something like a turtle.
...didn't some T.rex protein recently get found, preserved in bones? Was it sequenced, or just chemically analyzed?
I think I had read that the red blood cells retrieved from the tyrannosaur had nuclei in them, as in chromosomal material. I don't know if they analyzed it or were able to sequence the proteins or the DNA though.
a closer outgroup would be a hoatzin or a ratite like the emu, and a further one might be something like a turtle.
...didn't some T.rex protein recently get found, preserved in bones? Was it sequenced, or just chemically analyzed?
I've had quite enough of the ratites, thank you very much... I wasted a week of my life redoing analyses on them for a professor who didn't want to accept empirical evidence.
A chicken might be acceptable as an outgroup organism, if we want something within Aves. I don't think I want to go much further out than crocodile, as that will probably be more than sufficient to anchor the trees properly.
Haven't heard about the T-Rex protein. I tend to ignore paleobiology because there just aren't always enough data for us to come up with ideas that are simultaneously interesting and well-supported. Genomics, though... mountains of data are available, and it's only going to get cheaper to obtain more of it.
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I don't think galliformes would be very far 'out' wrt. the other groups; they're basically another type of relatively modern birds. The hoatzin (Opisthocomidae), though, is pretty unique. IIrc its taxonomy is subject to debate, which might make it worse as an outgroup but fun to include in the study itself.
I think you're right; the crocodile should work just fine.
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