Secularization enables the growth of Islam.

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richardbenson
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06 Sep 2010, 12:50 pm

suprisingly that was a very refreashing answer parakeet

iamnotaparakeet
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06 Sep 2010, 10:06 pm

richardbenson wrote:

suprisingly that was a very refreashing answer parakeet

It's actually the premise of the historical movement known as disestablishmentarianism, which later lead to the formation of the "separation of Church and State", in which the Church is not an instrument of the State and neither is the State an instrument of the Church. It started in England with resentment for the Anglican Church. Also, with regard to Catholicism, kings hated how Popes would issue commands at them, and would counter argue against the Popes with a doctrine known as "the divine right of kings". It's something that has stank historically when one tries to command the other.

hyperlexian
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09 Sep 2010, 10:21 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

It's amazing what rubbish passes for debate, even among people with good factual memories.

I still cannot believe iamparakeet is spreading this alarmist message after I pointed out to him that Muslim birthrates are declining.

WELL, JUST SO THIS SINKS IN, MUSLIM BIRTH RATES ARE ON THE DECLINE AND MUSLIMS MAKE UP ONLY 4.5% OF THE WESTERN EUROPEAN POPULATION AND A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF EUROPE'S POPULATION AS A WHOLE. --- SOURCE ---

yes, thank you for pointing this out. shoulda known you'd be a fellow canuck!

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hyperlexian
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09 Sep 2010, 10:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism,

You mean those secular leaders who are accused of "intolerance" and "cultural imperialism" against Islam, those ones like Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens? Those people who say tolerance is good as a rule, but can go too far. Those guys and gals?

No, I meant the general PC bias atmosphere created by morons who only like to go with the flow because they don't want to speak their mind and thus stand out. However, in regard to Dawkin's he for once has said something that ever so slightly makes sense:

Quote:

There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.

maybe not currently blowing up buildings, but do you have any idea of the atrocities performed in the name of jesus? seriously, do you know? because many, many people have been killed by christians in the name of god...

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takemitsu
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09 Sep 2010, 10:30 pm

Quote:

Secularization enables the growth of Islam.

What would this mean for AS people if Islam did take over?

DarthMetaKnight
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09 Sep 2010, 10:50 pm

takemitsu wrote:

Quote:

Secularization enables the growth of Islam.

What would this mean for AS people if Islam did take over?

Depends on how good we are at following Islamic law.

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2010, 10:59 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism,

Quote:

It's not just "in the name of", in terms of doing something contradictory to the teachings of Christ as per the actions of many Catholics who didn't even know the contents of the Bible. Rather, it is the doctrines internal to Islam which advocate the use of violence, the practice of female circumcision (id est, the removal or mutilation of the clitoris), and such of the sort which you'd decry if it were inherent to Christianity.

hyperlexian
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09 Sep 2010, 11:07 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism,

Quote:

female genital mutilation is not supported by the vast majority of muslims - it is a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one. so that is not a valid example.

violence is supported in the bible as well as the quran, but most christians and most muslims do not personally advocate violence. regardless of what the books say, people of both religions tend to overwhelmingly choose peace. but just in case you were interested, here is a wikipedia page on christian terrorism for you to peruse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2010, 11:10 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism,

Quote:

You are willing to make the claim that female circumcision is not in the koran?

hyperlexian
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09 Sep 2010, 11:14 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

You are willing to make the claim that female circumcision is not in the koran?

yes:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
it is not advocated in the qu'ran

[edited for size]

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2010, 11:18 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

You are willing to make the claim that female circumcision is not in the koran?

yes:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
it is not advocated in the qu'ran

[edited for size]

That tends to quote only the passages which minimize it. I suppose though: draw a line and then plot the points.

RedHanrahan
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10 Sep 2010, 2:23 am

Female circumcision is NOT a Muslim thing any more than Peyote rituals are an American thing.
Both predate either Islam or the advent of the USA... time to read some books and meet some Muslims birdbrains...

peace j

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Hanotaux
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10 Sep 2010, 2:35 am

Quote:

time to read some books and meet some Muslims birdbrains

Off to 7-11 I go...... ! !!

iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2010, 6:59 am

hyperlexian wrote:

female genital mutilation is not supported by the vast majority of muslims - it is a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one.

Something to know is that religion tends to set the culture. Saying that it's a cultural phenomenon and not a 'religious' one is merely to obfuscate the matter.

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10 Sep 2010, 7:01 am

RedHanrahan wrote:

Actions can be performed in the absence of ritual, however when in ritual it is no longer a matter of the actions being of themselves alone.

hyperlexian
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10 Sep 2010, 7:04 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

RedHanrahan wrote:

Actions can be performed in the absence of ritual, however when in ritual it is no longer a matter of the actions being of themselves alone.

your point is unfounded in fact. many of the people who perform the ritual are not in fact muslim at all. your straw man collapsed.

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