Gay marriages and civil partnerships in church

Post Reply New Topic

Is it a possibility to stop people harrassing me in any thread I start? I was giving other examples in my post, and not just Muslims.

Um, isn't it you who should give a reason why it should be? Did you mean to give you a reason why it shouldn't be?

When two impassioned people are looking at and/or approaching an issue or a question from different perspectives, things happen ... and I do not happen to see any of us impassioned folks here actually harassing anyone else at the moment. Questions are questions, and questions deserve answers ... and such is the way of debate.

That's a pretty shocking statement. Being openly gay is not shoving it in anybodys face. People shouldn't be forced to hide their sexuality to avoid offending others.
OK, you're not condoning violence against gays, but why can you not blame people for taking offence at people being openly gay, and not hiding it?

Its different when someone just seems to be arguing for the sake of arguing. I already pointed out that he doesn't even stand by his own beliefs on the other thread. There isn't much point having a discussion with someone like that, and I agree that questions deserve answers, but just questioning answers and questioning questions.... it can be a vicious circle. Remind me of that part in Big, they didn't have the main clip

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1_ZEL0ehkE[/youtube]

Seeing two men kiss can make some people cringe, I can understand why.
I know they shouldn't be forced to hide their sexuality, but at the same time people shouldn't be told what they are meant to feel, thats insane.

... and that "just seems ..." is my point: Perception. We all tend to see things as *we* are, and our perceptions are not always accurate.


That is a personal character judgment you have made, and it is not okay to verbalize that kind of thing in any kind of flaming manner here.


If that is what you believe, then maybe wait and see what tomorrow might bring.


Which is it: Yes, or no?!


Our lives are spent answering those questions and even the questioned answers ... but it sure does all end some day.

TBH they don't walk down the street kissing or holding hands. That would be suicide here.

No, you can't tell people how to think. You can't tell the white supremacist that he must feel respect towards other races, but you can make it illegal for him to act on his feelings.
I see very little difference between racists, homophobes, and bigots of other types.

What, it ends when we die?

The answer to your question

I proved that he was just arguing for the sake of it, and not standing by his inner beliefs. Its better if me and him just agree to disagree.

Already done. Apart from the occasional "not caught in the act" or whatever, nobody can compromise the life, liberty or property of another human being without having to face certain consequences.

I agree. There is nothing to differentiate the righteous hate/disgust except the object of the hate.
What is even more amazing is that the Autistic minority has members in its ranks. Kinda "Hey you are a minority and I am a minority...I will pick on you"
Anyone who condones such opinion , sees merit in it or downplays it as just impassioned is casting themselves rather badly. Not sure anyone has made that precise connection but I see it positioned in this direction. That is a concern.

*sigh*

Stop trying to distract from the issue at hand. Tell me what extra rights you believe the LGBT community has.

Of course, and rightly so. There is nothing that can be done to stop hate, but the law stops people acting on their hate. There will always be people in our society that choose to hate. Most of them are not worth trying to reason with.

The thing however, that saddens me most is the attitude of the church. Don't take it as a criticism of all Christianity. I know, and love plenty of liberal, sensible, normal Christians. Of course the mainstream church says not to hate gays, says not to abuse gays. But also says gays are abominations, and sinners. Obviously some people take this as a green light to dislike gays. Plenty of homophobes feel that they have justification from above for their feelings.
Having an organization the size of the church saying that you're a sinner when you have done nothing wrong is not a nice feeling. Although I'm athiest, it feels nasty to have people using the church as justification for disliking me. There are even people on this site who see me as a sinner simply because of my sexuality.
The church claims to be an organization that spreads love. When it comes to homosexuality, I have no doubt that the church spreads nothing but dislike and bigotry.

Now here is an interesting point.
Does a person choose their sexual identity anymore than the colour of their skin or their gender? No.
OK what is the homophobic bigot (ie ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hm-fb-)n. 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men. 2. Behavior based on such a feeling.) thinking the homosexual person is going to do to rectify their sin. Being gay is sinful and being gay is a sin. Effectively these elements of the church believes that God has selected a people that will be punished for being (not choosing or following a course of acting that they could avoid.)
Is that fair, tolerant, loving , ethical, kind or good? Flies in the face of organised Christian faith doesn't it?

My questions to the Christians that hold such views and are in contempt of gay people

Are you a bigot (it is defined above)?
Does that make you any better than the intolerant sexists, racists or any other bigot or bigotry?
Why?
Why do you think that a loving tolerant moral God would allow for people to be born gay and thus damned at birth (Yes not go into the "they choose to be gay" - that is a cop out)?
Murderers, rapist, thieves and the like hurt others and society. Gays don't. Why invest with them the same or similar abject disapproval?
In the approach of calling it fair, if a fundamentalist Christian with negative views on gay people were to illustrate contempt then at what point is retaliation from those insulted parties, allowable? We ought not suggest that gay people ought to be defenseless against anti-gay rhetoric or not (regardless of whether it is hidden under the cowardly veil of a stated belief, or not).

You bring up interesting points Butterflies

Is it possible that you could have a thread about a subject and NOT bring your hatred of Muslims in to it? You want to have a "I hate Islam" argument, feel free. But why bring them in to an argument about gay marriages in Christian churches?

Who the f**k are you to say what my "inner beliefs" are? Are you my wife? Hey, why don't you ask her what she thinks my inner beliefs are? Why don't you ask her whether I stand by them or not? She posts here too.

Hey, maybe if you didn't answer every question with "Muslims did it." then we wouldn't get into the circle?