Got faith?

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Great post, thank you DW. I thorougly respect all the information you have brought to this thread, I love hearing someone so proudly defend the truth.

Religion, faith, whatever you want to call it, is the singlemost powerful force in the world. In God's name, there is nothing we can't or won't do. If we all unite and follow Jesus Christ, and worship the one and only God, we would literally have paradise on earth. Of course Satan wants to quell that force, so he turns people away from God with all the distractions in our world today.

When the time comes that we have a One World Order, and mark my words it will happen, we will all be forced to look to one main leader. To follow the ideals of one government and one military. They will make people believe it is for the greater good.

Well it will be, but for their own greater good, not the good of the common person.

How is that different from worshipping one God? It's not. It's just evil. Instead of worshipping God, people will be worshipping Satan and not even know it. That is why he was represented as a snake in the garden of Eden, because of how sneaky and sly he is.

I can guess how many skeptics are laughing and shaking their heads. I can almost hear the denials and insults brewing. Oh laugh on. I was a nonbeliever once, I have criticized and insulted believers for 25 years. I grew up in an anti-religious family, so it's nothing I haven't heard before. All I can say is that when the Tribulation period begins, and the worlds governments unite...I can pray that at least one person who has read this will remember my words. And maybe it will be enough to save you too.

Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?

[quote="Sand]Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?[/quote]

The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.

The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.[/quote]

The Bible tells you. To me it is as relevant as Superman Comics. God may or may not be out there. When He comes in here and sits down with me for a cup of coffee and clearly explains what all His peculiarities are all about I might pay for the coffees. Otherwise I'd choose separate bills.

The Bible tells you. To me it is as relevant as Superman Comics. God may or may not be out there. When He comes in here and sits down with me for a cup of coffee and clearly explains what all His peculiarities are all about I might pay for the coffees. Otherwise I'd choose separate bills.[/quote]

Fortunately, we are living in end times, and there is not long to wait until God shows Himself, and his wrath.

Fortunately, we are living in end times, and there is not long to wait until God shows Himself, and his wrath.[/quote]

Considering what happened last Saturday I feel rather calm

There is no "in effect" there at all. Rather, I had said what I meant, and I still do mean what I had actually said:

My observations (as shared with many others) have a tremendous integrity. They can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed, and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current "supernatural civilization" (people living in right spiritual fellowship). That seems sufficient to me.


No, you are asking me to quote others so you can pick apart my comprehensions of their posts.

Not interested.

As already said, and as evidenced in various discussions right here in PPR about over-sized rocks, one-ended sticks and the matter of "perfect world" versus "best sovereign selection":

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!
=======================

As a somewhat-related aside here ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxT--G-WkY[/youtube]

So what you're saying is that all conceptions of God are vulnerable and not worth discussing. And also declaring that people living in spiritual fellowship (a term not particularly clear to me) is absolute proof of God. All that I can figure out is that you claim a bunch of people agreeing on something thereby makes that a valid proof as solid as any scientifically validated accepted fact. I'm sorry, I cannot agree to that.

Why do you keep suggesting I have said things I have not said?!

But of course, yes, I do know some likely answers to that question.


I have never claimed to have absolute proof of/for anything to anyone other than myself and/or as in concert with others who have also done their very own "taste and see" supernatural "scientific experiments".


Nothing even close to that.


That is good!

I really don't know what the hell is going on with this conversation. Everything I see as you are saying is denied so I seemingly cannot converse with you. Perhaps we had better forget it. Evidently communication is not taking place.

Maybe I am wrongly assuming you are taking/holding an adversarial position of some kind? If you are, then I am simply refusing to get sucked into a senseless encounter within a rhetorical arena. But if that is not what you are about ...

Maybe you have been schooled to presumptuously hear things in certain pre-defined ways? If so, you will have to find your way out of that box on your own if you do not want any help from me (or from anyone else) there ... and I do not mean to be insulting while/when saying that.


That is your call to make, but just do not either wittingly or unwittingly toss the blame at me!

What I am saying is that this conversation is going nowhere. I am not seeking your advice nor attacking you, I am trying to understand you and I have failed totally. I have presented my viewpoint as best I know how and you seem to see my standards for examining the world and accepting or rejecting proposals as an aggressive effort to depreciate your point of view. Since I lack any comprehension of what your viewpoint is I can hardly attack it or even examine it under my standards. Whose fault it is that we do not communicate is irrelevant. The point remains that our interaction is unsuccessful.

All considered there, I willingly accept any blame possibly due anyone.

There is more than just one question here, and the entire discussion began on the allegedly "scientific" thought, evidence or "position" (dogma) saying there must obviously be no "God" (or any need for one or whatever else) the alleged "scientist" -- the strident/militant atheist -- might have to say about the entire/overall matter of "God" ...

... and yet, and as just indicated, there is no actual science truly involved there. Rather, the true scientist has only been conveniently misrepresented and/or poorly plagiarized ...

... and at that point, the PPR-typical strident/militant atheist's argument is no different than my own in the sense of stemming from personal will, desire or belief (and at times even admittedly for evangelistic purpose) rather than upon any true science (even though at least the principles of true scientific practice -- taste/try/experiment and see for yourself -- actually can lead to a positive experience within the supernatural (where the same within the atheistic community is not even really possible since its own dogma is but its own dead-end street)).

This is not atheist dogma?

Is there any reason to believe that the creator of natural law would have to be all powerful? I think the point Lee is trying to make is that it is just as silly do define what attributes a deity would have to have in order to exist as it is to claim that you know what those attributes are. I think what you fear is if natural had been made, then it can be changed and that would diminish the importance of science. I don't agree though. As you say, science is only concerned with discovering what those laws are and how the knowledge can be but to use; religion is more concerned with why they are what they are. I really don't see any conflict.

well if a deity isnt above all natural laws then it wouldnt really be a deity would it?
then it would simply be another sentience, more advanced maybe, but still a normal existence.

Admittedly there some atheists who claim there is no God. But there are also many atheists who point out that there is no acceptable evidence of a God and, beyond that, that there is no necessity of a God required in the operation of the universe as it has been perceived. This seems to be Hawking's viewpoint and I can accept that. On that second basis there is no need to concern one's self about the existence of a God. Dogma, as defined, concerns unsupported claims and science, insofar as I have examined it, makes no unsupported claims. It does make proposals and then attempts to find supporting evidence for them. If evidence is not discovered, those proposals are either rejected or put on hold until evidence is obtained. Religion does make claims that are not supported by evidence and also proclaims that these claims must be supported wholeheartedly without evidence. That is the nature of faith. One of the religious claims I have heard is that God is all powerful. I did not invent this in order to demolish it. If you have never heard of this you are amazingly uninformed, to use a polite term. If the God you believe in is not all powerful, then it is a rather personal God with characteristics I have never heard of and I cannot possible delve into your personal version of God without being thoroughly informed on it. If you wish to let me know all about your personal God perhaps I can see what it's relationship to known science might be. Or, like me, perhaps you are getting tired of kicking rubbish around.