Why are conservatives hated more than liberals?

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Someone has to pay for the cops so they can snarf up donuts and coffee instead of catching thieves and murderers.

ruveyn

In reality, only a tiny fraction are all of these at once. The overwhelming majority fit at least one of the above. The remainder care more about their own greed than the well-being of their own people. They are back-stabbing, ungrateful, useless vermin, and I'd just as soon have them chained together sunk to the bottom of the ocean.

White trash, and they aren't fit to be called Americans. Such cowardly filth are an injustice to our beautiful soil, and perhaps it has been too long since blood has been spilled to nourish it. But we are in an age in which drones are sent out to fight our battles for us, and our troops are barely at more risk than our police. The age of heroics, causes and great visions is perhaps at an end. If so, what remains is tawdriness, and it seems that there are those who prefer it to be that way.

God, how I hate the 21st Century.

And you say this because past people were saints, and because being killed in a war is really a wonderful thing to have happen to anybody's child???

Come off of it, anybody with a working knowledge of the past knows that past people were greedy, grasping vermin as well. As well, it isn't as if a past age, where people died because some people pissed off Mexico, or because yellow news papers attacked the Spanish, or because the US had somehow gotten involved in a war in some half-way manner and pissed off the other side, or even because the US is playing some political game about Communism is really more heroic. I mean, seriously, the US has never been a "Noble crusader", as politics has always been dirty.

Right... yeah, myths of the 19th century are so much better!

Not in America. I pay taxes for national security (when it's not abused), the police, and welfare for those who actually need it. No more, and maybe less if you can help it.

And Civil Society doesn't mean sh***y public schools and giving money to perfectly capable people.

I'm aware of this, but the ideological wingnut motivation for homeschooling does constitute a significant percentage of homeschoolers, and many materials targeted at a homeschool audience reflect this fact. A relatively large fraction of homeschooling parents do so in order that they may teach their children Creation "Science" and revisionist history. Those parents concerned that their children gain an actual education, as you described in your post, would just as often send their children to public school so as to satisfy the legal requirements, and then supplement with additional home instruction in whatever areas they felt the public school was deficient.

You can't reinterpret the Constitution however you feel like out of empathy.

Prove it.

If the child is a conservative, yes.

No.

In fact, they were worse, but part of the reason we have managed to improve the situation, even to the weak and pathetic extent that we have, has been to mercilessly criticize and lambast it by various means. On occasion, I use the argument that, "things were so much better when we lived in caves and dragged our women home by the hair." It's a crock of s**t, but it makes people think about how they might improve their situation.

Jesus Christ, if you want to be a realist, the USA has been the worst f*****g civil rights offender of all time during that particular time period, but, in the name of f*****g god, don't tell the kids that. Intimidate them. Give them something they can only hope to live up to being a miserable shadow of, and make sure they believe that, if they do manage to achieve such a moderate level of degeneration, they are comparatively blessed. That's part of why we aren't more f**ked-up today than we are.

Let the rest of them read some optimistic, forward-looking sci-fi BS, which works just as well for ones who have that sort of mindset.

The myths are a crock of s**t, but they're effective as hell if used properly.

Most people are too mother f*****g shallow to comprehend or even try to comprehend the grim, dirty, sleazy reality of our history. Seriously, do you have any idea how much of a giant, useless a**hole Ben Franklin was? He was a s**t. He was an abomination. But we worship his god damn image, and thank God (speaking idiomatically) we let the disgusting criminal who shares its name rot in his miserable grave.

If people in general knew what a crock of s**t the majority of 3rd Grade American history was, they would probably burn down the White House and piss on it in well-deserved contempt, and that wouldn't help anybody. Save the truth for f*****g grad students who have the intellectual resources and sufficient imagination to deal with reality without acting like pigs as a result.

But hey, maybe that's my cynicism and overall contempt toward the human race talking. But I also have a sort of faith in them. I know that a lot of the things we do that don't seem to make immediate sense are, in the long-term, for the best. In the end, most people really just want everything to work out. Even though most of what they do to that end is idiotic, the basic drive for everything to eventually work out in the end is just as ubiquitous and powerful as their stupidity.

I attribute it to my desire to be an optimist, though, not to rational judgment, that I believe one of these forces will in the fullness of time triumph over the other.

Not even then. There is nothing about the conservative impulse or sympathy that forces me to reject it without further consideration. Only idiocy is a capital crime.


No it hasn't. The US is a nation like all other nations. It screw-up, it gets things right, it continues with people who foolishly try to do what they think will work.

I believe in telling children the truth as a general rule though. I believe in intellectual honesty, and that practice best starts with displaying it.

I think the nation is about as fine as its always been. We've always had messed up nonsense going about, and frankly, I believe in realism. Giving people lies is also the reason why they want to ruin the nation with silly crusades that waste lives and/or screw up policy, and neither of those is particularly desirable.

.... Ben Franklin was an important diplomat and an early American scientist. He was generally a respectable figure of the time for his accomplishments and he did play an intellectual role in the revolution. Does this mean that he didn't do wrong? No. Should we say that he's a criminal? Probably not, we should recognize all figures in their context, culture, and even psychological limitations. He screwed up, sure, but... that's not a huge issue.


..... Why? America is still our nation regardless of how it emerged or why it exists. It isn't as if other nations are pretty and noble either. Many of them are just founded by some people who were much better at killing and manipulating folks than other people.

That being said, I don't see any justification for the noble lie. All you give is that "the past is evil and we need to inspire people", but honest, the kind of mentality present is the kind of mentality central for 1984. I don't believe in a government powerful enough to censor the truth. Even further, these damned lies can get in the way of good policy. If we're worshiping the Founding Fathers like Gods, then can we take a realistic view of the Constitution? If we are continually projecting onto their "sacred image" are we evaluating policies on the benefits? Finally, does anybody outside of grade school actually care or even remember enough about the founding fathers to really say what they actually did one way or another, except for the smart people? Only the idiots use the name, and they use it in an idiotic manner.

In short, I don't really see the point. You leap from myth to "it's all evil" filling it with gratuitous cursing, and in neither point do you even attempt to grasp reality. It's black or white with you, but reality is gray.

I was going to come in here to see what was going on
but i;'m just going to stand here and give you a disaproving stare

If you do, then our rights are meaningless and we may as well put the Constitution through a shredder.

I'm responding to you specifically on this because, on all other points, you're preaching to the choir, have managed to convince me, or otherwise I think you would probably see why I said what I said if you had a better understanding of my point of view. This particular point is specifically one that I would like to respond on because so rare is the person who will believe me on this.

The American Revolution was a crock of s**t. It was the biggest mistake in our entire history, and we'd have been better off if the British had won. The leaders of it were jerks, lowlifes and a**holes. They were politicians of the sleaziest, dirtiest kind. They were rubbish and jerk-offs. They were prima donna jackass douchebags. Don't tell the kids that, though, or they'll never cooperate when Uncle f*****g Sam wants them to pay their taxes or in any way trouble themselves.

Anyway, Benjamin Franklin was a prima donna and total jerk who left his own Loyalist son to rot in a prison until his teeth and hair fell out. He was a disgusting son of a b***h, and this ignominious character had shameful and filthy qualities in his character and history that we don't dare tell 3rd Graders about if we ever want to get anything whatsoever done.

Regardless of that, what I just said ironically doesn't contradict a single damn thing you said about him yourself. I'm just adding some stuff that helps illuminate how much of our mythology is a total crock of s**t and WHY it is so essential that we focus on what made our forefathers' accomplishments worthwhile, leaving the negative s**t for people who are interested in learning about it.

No, I just have a rabid, irrational loathing toward conservatives as a result of my personal history. I have the common sense to take my damn self with a grain of salt, here, if that's what you're driving at. With my temper, if I didn't take myself with a grain of salt once in a while, I'd have been locked-up years ago or murdered one. Allow me my vice, and I will allow you yours.

I considered myself a Conservative at first. I loved the idea that able-bodied people had to pay into the system before getting basic services. I disliked the idea of paying for another person's healthcare (who constantly made bad choices and refused to learn).

Yet the people who are attracted to the Conservative party are now scary. I literally feel that the Republican party would bring back the Inquisition if they had the chance. While I know many Conservatives are great people, it seems the quality of the party is going down. We actually had a person like Sarah Palin, one who did not make very intelligent decisions, who was going to be the vice president of our country. With McCain being older and possibly dying while in office, that scared the living s**t out of me.

It would help if the Conservative Party concentrated more on economic Conservativism than social Conservativism too. Their collective intolerance of Gay Rights, Transgender Rights and atheism, has really made me hate them. No one in this country likes to be told how to live their private lives. That is a major reason people pick on them.

[quote="techn0teen"[It would help if the Conservative Party concentrated more on economic Conservativism than social Conservativism too. Their collective intolerance of Gay Rights, Transgender Rights and atheism, has really made me hate them. No one in this country likes to be told how to live their private lives. That is a major reason people pick on them.[/quote]

Why are you calling it the Conservative Party? There isn't a Conservative Party in the US. There are ones in Canada and the UK.

And anyway, there are the libertarian Republicans. What do you think about those?

Wouldn't it be better to call them Republicans and Democrats?

@tech0teen, the way I say it, I'm a moderate conservative who got a well-rounded education, took a visit to see the mountains, and made a few close friends among those groups used as scapegoats.

That said, I think that the compassion that many people develop as a result of these factors is often mismanaged. The Democrats are well-meaning, but they can be incredibly asinine and impulsive, and they annoy me. I vote for them, but a lot of the crap they do sends my eyes rolling with a mixture of pity, disgust and wry amusement. They are an improvement, though, on dangerous and psychotic.

I am not sure I agree though. I mean, it was a decision with mixed consequences, however, the counter-factual of the British winning, or the revolution never fought is rather difficult to set up. It's entirely arguable that British economic policy would have failed to account for US interests, particularly given the use of mercantilist trade policy.

As for the founding fathers? Well... I don't think so. I mean, I will say that they were human beings and probably about as messed up as current politicians given their sleazy fights and bastard offspring and all of that. But... the worst??? No, no they weren't the worst.

Even further, I still don't see why their lives should tell us how we should behave. America has value because America is valuable, not because of history.


Well.... ok? I don't see the issue with his son, or even the rest of his escapades, to really be enough of a blemish for the level of condemnation you give. Franklin was no Stalin or Hitler.


Why is it though? Why can't we just have a world full of human beings? I don't mean that we should reject goals and moral beliefs, but I don't really think saints are very important. Trying to construct this fierce national construct just doesn't seem worthwhile and even seems to have its own dangers. I mean, even if we are trying to build myths, why not try to build them around something closer to truth?

In any case, I reject a lot of your conservative social theory. Until we start digging down to that, I don't think either side will really address the other.


Eh, whatever.