God and Sex

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Of course I reject that entirely, except that, yes, he wasn't one of the twelve apostles, but he never claimed to be. In fact, he rued the way he was and the horrible things he did before God called him -- the horrible things being that he persecuted and assisted in the stonings of his fellow Jews, whose only crime was believing Yeshua was the Messiah.

1 Cor 15:9


Imagine Obama making such an admission, about anything. No, prideful people do not make such self-incriminating admissions. They say mild things like, "Sure, I have my faults", but not "I helped stone good people to death." No one trying to hoodwink people would ever destroy his chances so completely as by making such a statement.

And you have come very precisely to my point. It follows, almost axiomatically, that no one should presume to know what is best or what is right for another person.

I have no complaint with a Christian who views homosexual behaviour--or even homosexual orientation itself--as sinful. I have a very great complaint with a Christian (or any other person, for that matter) who seeks to use the force of law to repress homosexual behaviour or the civil liberties of GLBT people. Believe as you will, by all means--but don't presume to deny me the freedom to marry as I choose, to adopt a child, or otherwise to live with the same privileges and freedoms enjoyed by heterosexuals.




Who defines those margins? You commit precisely the same error when you presume to know where those margins lie--or even whether they exist for anyone other than you.



I'll leave aside the issue that I am not a Christian, and therefore Paul's writings are not scripture. They are no more illustrative to me than the writings of any other thinker. The word of God they are not--from my perspective. I assume (but don't know, of course) that you believe otherwise, and so be it.

But I am glad to see that you leave open the possibility that I am free to interpret scripture. I know that I have (to the extent that I am able) done so in good faith. I assume that you have done the same. Surely, then you can accord me the same respect that I accord you.

I was totally replying to you, AngelRho and I wasn't insulting you; I wouldn't dream of it. I insult the Abrahamic God a lot, granted.

I only got upset because I thought b9 just came out of nowhere with an insult. It bothers me when people don't seem to have a logical reason to dislike me...but it turns out he was just a bit tired and mistaken.

It's okay.

If I was mocking you, I'd have understood and would've reacted differently. It's really the shock of an insult seeming to come from nowhere that upset me. Plus, I am way too touchy - so don't feel bad.

I got that feeling from your first response to me. You did not need to clarify further.



See below.



See above. No difference in approach.



Given the first King James Bible was introduced in 1611, I am sorry I was 400 years too late to the party. I guess you read the actual Greek, then?



Well, there are the use of quotation marks in that Devil Magic book you hate so much. But that brings up another point: have you done those things?

First off, I never said I was Catholic (basically everyone else on this thread knows this about me); just what their Bible says, which I believe is the proper explanation of historical and contextual issues. You have decided to make up another thread based on you flying off the handle because of your intolerance towards members of another branch. But do you know you else agrees with you on this matter? ATHEISTS. I seriously might be one of the few people who actually believe that the call to death was towards idolatry, not homosexual acts or homosexuals themselves. I really wonder how many theists would actually thank me for doing this service, or how many atheists are cursing at me for saying this. I really want to see if other people agree with me; do not worry about retaliation. You apparently do not, since you believe they should be put to death...again, if God wants you to do that for Him as His people, have you? Fortune tellers and all that, too? Don't argue with me on this issue if you do not back up your words.

@91: I eventually will get to reading those articles. Please do not believe I am ignoring you.

HerrGrimm: what the Bible says about homosexuality, surprisingly, doesn't matter to me that much (although persecution of of homosexuals does).

My issues with religion are more meta. Plus, I don't know that much about scripture.

Given the fact that the Bible and its verses has been used previously to start this kind of behavior, I was just asking around. Thank you.

I didn't mean to be rude and what you've said in this thread has been interesting. I think that Christians who swear that God hates homosexuality would find another way to justify their opinions if it wasn't in the Bible. If the Bible has been misinterpreted, there must be an underlying reason why.

Since we are all doing bible quotes here...
"Yahweh had ordered Moses, and they put every male to death... the sons of Israel took the Midianite women captive with their young children, and plundered all their cattle, all their flocks and all their goods. They set fire to the towns where they lived and all their encampments... Then, when they took the captives, spoil and booty to Moses..., Moses was enraged.... 'why have you spared the life of all the women...? So kill all the male children. Kill also all the women who have slept with a man. Spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves"

...God wants you to sleep with young virgin girls after murdering their family. Sick bastard.

Dude, you've got to put that into context.

Exactly. Other societies would have just killed all of them. That makes it slightly better . Unless you think rape is worse than murder, which I do.

Oh, right. There's a context that makes it appropriate...? Anyway, I voted for "other" obviously.

Last edited by LjosalfrBlot on 26 Oct 2011, 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do, as well. I was just being sarcastic. But yeah, brutal times, and imo, brutal God to match.

(Numbers 31)

As others here have already observed, it is philosophically nonsensical to criticize the Creator of everything including morality on the grounds of morality.

Isaiah 29:16

What's right in God's eyes is right. That's what right means. He Himself created right, and right was defined by Him. God says, in Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not." A God who does not change would not choose to go against that thing called "right" which He decided to create.

For men to play with men's lives is a horror and quite wrong indeed. But who are men to judge what God does with His creation? Am I to say to God in the afterlife about people going to Hell, "Really, God, that's going too far." It's hard to think of a more foolish thing for me to say to Him, given His infinite wisdom compared with my finite knowledge.



Better married than dead (though some would disagree).

Well, the first two links are dead and do not go anywhere.

The third I have printed out and will examine. It appears to be a conference paper. There is no biography of the writer. Can you provide one for me? For instance, is he well-known or just on the fringe?

Also, you are Catholic, correct?

"If the president does it, that means it's not illegal."
You do understand that this sort of destroys the entire notion of morality, yes?