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How can a Christian also be a Republican?

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Kraichgauer
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17 Nov 2011, 1:09 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Okay ruveyn here is an honest question, what is the Jewish view of laziness and trying to take advantage of other people's kindness? What is the Jewish view of people scamming people to take advantage of their good nature?


I don't like the idle rich either but I don't think we should take their money just cuz they don't work.


Then Occupy Wallstreet should be at Hollywood Blvd. then and not NYC.


Wow, thanks for the unrelated comment.
What on Hollywood Blvd that they should protest?
Amoeba music?

The Idle rich (those that profit without labor) take a lot more money out of the system than the Idle poor.
I begrudge neither his food.


You do realize most of the "idle rich" are retirees...


not the ones with most of the money.
Hey I have an Idea why don't you make your arguments and I will make mine.
that way we wont get confused by straw men and other silliness. :D

any way I begrudge no one his bread lazy rich parasite or not.


Oh so you're saying that people like Steve Jobs are a bunch of lazy people?


Should I guess that you are not on board with the plan?
please try to make arguments just for your side the ones you try to make for mine sound dumb.
kinda like you are not even trying almost like you are intentionally making bad arguments.

Steve is a great guy I did not think he was lazy until very recently in the past weeks he has done nothing.


Indeed, the Republicans should jump on the dead as the laziest bastards of them all. They even get a tax free piece of property for all eternity!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Gedrene
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17 Nov 2011, 1:24 pm

Now Gentlemen, we don't need to erect walls between ourselves. Let us repudiate eachother in a sensible and adult manner.



androbot2084
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17 Nov 2011, 4:02 pm

It's funny how conservatives portray the unemployed as a bunch of lazy thieves when it is the autistics who are last hired and first fired.



Inuyasha
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17 Nov 2011, 6:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.



JakobVirgil
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17 Nov 2011, 7:04 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


but that is because those groups are not righteous.
I shed no tears for the rich.
Especially those that do no labor.


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blauSamstag
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17 Nov 2011, 7:07 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


The wealthiest 1% should be paying over 80% of the federal income tax, as long as the income distribution is where it's at now.

We wouldn't need all these programs if the middle and lower classes weren't so woefully underpaid.



Kraichgauer
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17 Nov 2011, 7:51 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?

And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



blauSamstag
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17 Nov 2011, 7:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?

And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'd actually support a variable tax rate that is tied to what percentile of the population your owned wealth and income place you at.

With the bottom 10% paying nothing at all, and the top 1% having an effective tax rate around 60% of their income.



Kraichgauer
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17 Nov 2011, 8:16 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?

And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'd actually support a variable tax rate that is tied to what percentile of the population your owned wealth and income place you at.

With the bottom 10% paying nothing at all, and the top 1% having an effective tax rate around 60% of their income.


Chances are, my family and I would be paying nothing under such a system. Then hear the Republicans b***h and scream about the poor not paying their fair share.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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17 Nov 2011, 8:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Chances are, my family and I would be paying nothing under such a system. Then hear the Republicans b***h and scream about the poor not paying their fair share.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Some liberal democrats do that too.

ruveyn



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17 Nov 2011, 8:53 pm

Gedrene wrote:
Let us repudiate eachother in a sensible and adult manner.


If you cannot do that when you talk to people about abortion, please do not tell others to do it.

I call it as I see it, and fair is fair. This has gotten me into trouble previously, I don't think you were here for that dark part of my posting history.



Last edited by HerrGrimm on 17 Nov 2011, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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17 Nov 2011, 8:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Chances are, my family and I would be paying nothing under such a system. Then hear the Republicans b***h and scream about the poor not paying their fair share.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Some liberal democrats do that too.

ruveyn


They do which - pay no income tax, or b***h about the poor not paying anything?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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17 Nov 2011, 9:29 pm

It is true that a "true Christian" would be perfectly good and willingly give away most of his possessions to the poor.

That being said, a few points:

1) By your definition, there are no "true Christians" alive today, not even in deed rather than belief, thereby rendering the term by your definition useless. As a Catholic, I believe that Jesus and Mary are the only perfectly good people who have ever lived, but I expect that you would not as a non-Christian. Who does that leave, out of the billions upon billions of people who have ever lived? No one, which also excludes every Democrat, past, present, or future.

2) Most people on the planet right now make just a few dollars a day. It could be reasonably argued that a "true Christian" would be perfectly justified in advocating for lower taxes on himself or even tax evasion on the grounds that he intended to give his money to the truly poor, not to those who aren't worrying that they might die of starvation next week. As a person living in an industrialized nation in 2011, one has to admit, we're all doing extremely well for ourselves.

3) It could be reasonably argued that charitable organizations use donated money more efficiently than governments use taxes and that a "true Christian" could be justified in not handing the IRS everything he owns.

4) Why is it that most left-wingers have such a problem making any distinction between charitable giving and taxation? This is an honest question here, I just don't get it. Jesus quite explicitly warned those never doing the former that they'd be damned. He said absolutely nothing about taxation in particular. (And before you remind me "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...", note that that's really nothing more than a simple definition of justice: giving people their due. We just disagree on what Caesar's due is.)

5) I'm sick and tired of people calling right-wingers evil or non-Christian. Seriously. I personally believe that left-wingers advocate for policies antithetical to Christianity, but I'm willing to keep it to myself if y'all are. :)



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17 Nov 2011, 9:46 pm

Black_Zawisza wrote:
It is true that a "true Christian" would be perfectly good and willingly give away most of his possessions to the poor.

That being said, a few points:

1) By your definition, there are no "true Christians" alive today, not even in deed rather than belief, thereby rendering the term by your definition useless. As a Catholic, I believe that Jesus and Mary are the only perfectly good people who have ever lived, but I expect that you would not as a non-Christian. Who does that leave, out of the billions upon billions of people who have ever lived? No one, which also excludes every Democrat, past, present, or future.

2) Most people on the planet right now make just a few dollars a day. It could be reasonably argued that a "true Christian" would be perfectly justified in advocating for lower taxes on himself or even tax evasion on the grounds that he intended to give his money to the truly poor, not to those who aren't worrying that they might die of starvation next week. As a person living in an industrialized nation in 2011, one has to admit, we're all doing extremely well for ourselves.

3) It could be reasonably argued that charitable organizations use donated money more efficiently than governments use taxes and that a "true Christian" could be justified in not handing the IRS everything he owns.


This is why charitable contributions are tax deductible.

Quote:
4) Why is it that most left-wingers have such a problem making any distinction between charitable giving and taxation? This is an honest question here, I just don't get it. Jesus quite explicitly warned those never doing the former that they'd be damned. He said absolutely nothing about taxation in particular. (And before you remind me "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...", note that that's really nothing more than a simple definition of justice: giving people their due. We just disagree on what Caesar's due is.)


It only looks that way when you look at it in reverse.

Conservatives holler that we should cut government programs so that the wealthy don't have to be taxed so much.

Quote:
5) I'm sick and tired of people calling right-wingers evil or non-Christian. Seriously. I personally believe that left-wingers advocate for policies antithetical to Christianity, but I'm willing to keep it to myself if y'all are. :)


Really? 'cause most of the people who call themselves conservative christians would be among those that Christ personally threw out of the temple.

I'm sick and tired of conservative apologists.



Inuyasha
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17 Nov 2011, 9:53 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.



JakobVirgil
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17 Nov 2011, 10:05 pm

Did you know everyone in america pays taxes?
Did you know a large portion of the very wealthy do not work at all
do not employ anyone and live off making economic bets that tend
to destabilize the economy ?

But a mans a man for all that.

I begrudge not man his food.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/