Why do Fundies have such a HUGE Persecution Complex?

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Kraichgauer
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11 Jan 2012, 1:28 am

Telekon wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Telekon: Turn on ABC for the NH Republican debate going on tonight. There you can hear Gingrich and Santorum bitching about how persecuted the Catholic church is under Obama. Or check Youtube for Rick Perry's ad about the "war on religion." Or take any of your pick of right-wing bloggers. Basically, you are being ridiculous. Either you live under a rock and really aren't aware of this sentiment or you are being deliberately obtuse.[

The Catholic persecution comment never happened. Gingrich isn't a serious Christian anyway. He's been married three times (left his first wife on her death bed and cheated on his second wife with his future third wife) and he's a total narcissist in love with power. His conversion to Catholicism was a cynical attempt at reinventing himself. He's trying to change his imagine so that the Evangelical wing of the GOP will accept him, but it isn't working. Everyone knows that he's phony. The Rick Perry ad was moronic but it hasn't resonated with voters. His poll numbers have been dismal for months. The ad was a reflection of his own mentality not the voters. None of this proves anything about so-called fundies.

To be sure, though, it was the fundies of the Dominist movement in Texas who had convinced Perry that he should run for president, so he could fulfill Biblical prophecy, and usher in Christ's second coming.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

peebo
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11 Jan 2012, 2:11 am

perhaps it's delusional in nature?

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11 Jan 2012, 2:12 am

Telekon wrote:

The Catholic persecution comment never happened.

Yes, it did. Watch the debate if you don't believe me. And Perry's ad may have backfired, but his sentiment is not unique. The fact is that at least 3 major candidates for a major party's nomination for President decided that claiming religious persecution against Christians was a winning tactic in the voter demographic they were targeting. And anywhere you go on the right-wing blogosphere, you would think we were still living int he days of the early Church where public execution of Christians was commonplace. Just today a friend of mine posted to Facebook alleging an organized campaign against Catholicism in particular and Christianity in general. And you have seen for yourself iamnotaparakeet in this very thread. There is simply no reasonable way of denying that this persecution complex exists.

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LKL
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11 Jan 2012, 2:25 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

LKL wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

So then it is similarly impossible for unrepentant bacon-eaters and beard-shavers to get into Heaven. At least they won't be running out of room up there anytime soon.

Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.

It's about cleanliness, not appearance. If you were God, would you want to hang around with a bunch of people who smelled like pigs? Of course not!

It's still not equivalent to morality. The outward appearance is irrelevant if what's inside is rotten.

What? You say that purity has nothing to do with morality?

Kraichgauer
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11 Jan 2012, 2:44 am

LKL wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

LKL wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

So then it is similarly impossible for unrepentant bacon-eaters and beard-shavers to get into Heaven. At least they won't be running out of room up there anytime soon.

Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.

It's about cleanliness, not appearance. If you were God, would you want to hang around with a bunch of people who smelled like pigs? Of course not!

It's still not equivalent to morality. The outward appearance is irrelevant if what's inside is rotten.

What? You say that purity has nothing to do with morality?

I thought this thread was about how you people think you're victims. You're misdirecting the argument by trying to make this about personal morality.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Telekon
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11 Jan 2012, 2:52 am

Orwell wrote:

There is simply no reasonable way of denying that this persecution complex exists.

I deny it. All you've given me is a bunch of anecdotes (a guy on a forum, a guy on Facebook, some bloggers). And your first comment to me was made before the NH debate happened. Link me to the part where Gingrich and Santorum charge Obama with persecuting the Catholic Church. This thread was created to portray people who take their religion seriously as lunatics and you, a putative Christian, have joined in to support it.

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11 Jan 2012, 3:26 am

Telekon wrote:

And your first comment to me was made before the NH debate happened.

No, it was made during the debate, after the comments had been made. You may have watched the wrong debate- this happened in the ABC debate, not the NBC one.

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pandabear
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11 Jan 2012, 8:24 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

What this means is that so long as they can make an argument as to what the author "really" meant in the historical context, etc, then anything can be argued for, and there are ongoing debates within fundamentalists on whether a particular interpretation is taking the Bible literally enough.

Very good point. However, I think that each Fundie regards himself as belonging to a church that knows exactly and literally what the author originally meant. Not only does their particular church uniquely know everything, but only the members of their congregation are going to be raptured away to Heaven, as a result of having the correct literal interpretations.

iamnotaparakeet
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11 Jan 2012, 8:32 am

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

Kraichgauer
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11 Jan 2012, 12:02 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

If they're fundies, then I expect they believe they'll be raptured away when Christ comes back, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Awesomelyglorious
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11 Jan 2012, 1:04 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

No one "just reads the Bible". That may seem an odd claim, but the issue is that one will not arrive at any of the central theological doctrines from just reading the Bible without getting the interpretive advice of another party. The Bible is too large to be a personal interpretive project for most, and even then some of the central doctrines of Christianity are difficult to arrive at from the text alone. For instance, the trinity, even if there are passages suggesting it, is not explicit, it is too bizarre to be a natural interpretation for most, and so the centrality of the trinity could only come from the theological reflection of a church community, not bottom up from people who "just read the Bible".

Awesomelyglorious
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11 Jan 2012, 1:10 pm

Telekon wrote:

Orwell wrote:

There is simply no reasonable way of denying that this persecution complex exists.

And Telekon, you're stuck fighting the lost argument.

Given that a LOT OF PEOPLE have similar anecdotes(including myself) I have to say that the anecdotal evidence holds to a significant degree.

This thread was created to portray a particular set of Christians holding to a particular kind of Christian theology as having a cultural problem. Even Christians can join in on this criticism, because nobody is improved in refusing to call a spade a spade.

The fact that you can't even interpret this thread and Orwell's actions with proper charity gives a lot more about your thinking style than anything else.

In any case, I see no reason to participate in this kind of argument. There is no benefit in arguing with those stuck on lost causes and to you this does not appear to be a matter of truth but rather some apologetic for some favored dogmas. Unreasonable skepticism can be used for anything(and is a waste), whether it is used to defend fundamentalism, Stalinism, anti-Semitism, and so on and so forth.

pandabear
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11 Jan 2012, 1:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

You're doomed. :twisted:

pandabear
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11 Jan 2012, 2:08 pm

Telekon wrote:

Orwell wrote:

There is simply no reasonable way of denying that this persecution complex exists.

Here is an article where Catholics claim that they were persecuted by Protestants 50 years ago, and now, the tide has definitely turned: some Evangofascists are now supporting Santorum and Gingrich

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-ed ... s-1.406486

Quote:

Generations of staunchly Protestant American clergymen must be collectively turning in their graves. Bauer’s endorsement of a devoutly Catholic candidate is surely a significant landmark in the annals of American anti-Catholicism, which historian Arthur Schlesinger famously described as “the most deeply-seated bias in the history of the American people.”

iamnotaparakeet
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11 Jan 2012, 2:31 pm

pandabear wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

You're doomed. :twisted:

Meh, from you that's almost assurance of salvation....

pandabear
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11 Jan 2012, 2:40 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Really, and what about Christians who just read the Bible and aren't members of any club?

You're doomed. :twisted:

Meh, from you that's almost assurance of salvation....

Almost

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