Is abortion considered murder?

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puddingmouse
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12 Jan 2012, 4:15 pm

Vigilans wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Oh yes!

The smell of geology without the sinfulness.

is that even possible? Everyone knows geology is the most sinful of all sciences

I thought that was biology, but I guess they're equal.

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LKL
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12 Jan 2012, 4:30 pm

I suddenly want to run out and find myself a geologist.

Asp-Z
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12 Jan 2012, 5:02 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ERgTC-3wsY[/youtube]

Vigilans
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12 Jan 2012, 5:05 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ERgTC-3wsY[/youtube]

bmm bmm tish bmm ABORTION

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Vigilans
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12 Jan 2012, 6:23 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecW0B5rELyo[/youtube]

donnie_darko
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15 Jan 2012, 6:37 am

I said somewhat. I don't really think it's as bad as killing someone who has already been born. but I think in principle, it is kind of the same.

I also think a lot of the arguments used to justify abortion could be used to justify infanticide as well, and in fact probably were used to that end in the past.

LKL
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15 Jan 2012, 3:04 pm

proof that, once again, evidence has no place in this argument.

AceOfSpades
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15 Jan 2012, 3:06 pm

LKL wrote:

proof that, once again, evidence has no place in this argument.

Evidence for what? It's a highly subjective topic.

Awesomelyglorious
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15 Jan 2012, 4:14 pm

LKL wrote:

Telekon wrote:

LKL wrote:

Yeah, actually it does. 'Life support' is something that is physically attatched to the patient and maintaining basic homeostasis for the patient: respirators, heart-lung machines, etc are all physically attached to the patient. Without them, the patient dies. A patient on life support, unlike a sleeping infant, cannot lie quietly alone and sleep without being attached to the machine. What an infant needs is basically what is provided in a skilled nursing facility, not life support.

That's one definition. Here's another:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/life-support

Quote:

3. of or pertaining to anything that fosters or sustains life, success, or continued existence, as of a person, thing, or nation: the life-support system of the economy.

In that sense the newborn child is on life-support. Its guardians are its life-support.

That definition is so broad as to be meaningless for the purpose of this discussion. My effing dog is my life support, by that definition.

He just went in and selected the least relevant definition, which is more of a metaphor based upon the definition you were talking about.

DentArthurDent
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16 Jan 2012, 7:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

artrat wrote:

It is the destruction of genetic composition which will eventually lead to a human life.

.... But that's not the same as a human life. If there were some method of turning skin cells into human lives, that wouldn't mean that skins cells were now persons.

Careful AG, exfoliation may indeed, one day, be deemed murderous.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110728123107.htm

"how dare you use that lofa you just killed neo-einstein"

All this talk of life support systems is a nonsense, just because an egg has been fertilized and cells have begun to divide does not mean that the zygot is viable for life, some 20% of recognised pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion so we can only guess at how many abort with out the woman ever knowing she was pregnant. For you who believe in an interventionist god does this mean that your god is now guilty of murder. You may shake your head at this question but by ignoring the facts of human reproduction that really is the level of stupidity of your argument. A divided cell is NOT a fully viable animal

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abacacus
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16 Jan 2012, 7:10 pm

Abortion is only that, abortion. It is NOT a human life, it is a fertilized egg. It is incapable of existing outside the womb.

ruveyn
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16 Jan 2012, 7:43 pm

abacacus wrote:

Abortion is only that, abortion. It is NOT a human life, it is a fertilized egg. It is incapable of existing outside the womb.

A fetus aborted in the third trimester is more than a fertilized egg.

ruveyn

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16 Jan 2012, 7:50 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

artrat wrote:

It is the destruction of genetic composition which will eventually lead to a human life.

.... But that's not the same as a human life. If there were some method of turning skin cells into human lives, that wouldn't mean that skins cells were now persons.

Careful AG, exfoliation may indeed, one day, be deemed murderous.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110728123107.htm

"how dare you use that lofa you just killed neo-einstein"

That's your words not mine.

Quote:

All this talk of life support systems is a nonsense, just because an egg has been fertilized and cells have begun to divide does not mean that the zygote is viable for life, some 20% of recognized pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion so we can only guess at how many abort with out the woman ever knowing she was pregnant.

A spontaneous abortion is incomparable to purposely aborting a child.

Quote:

For you who believe in an interventionist god does this mean that your god is now guilty of murder. You may shake your head at this question but by ignoring the facts of human reproduction that really is the level of stupidity of your argument. A divided cell is NOT a fully viable animal

I did not ignore the facts of human reproduction. I am aware that it is not yet alive but abortion is still emotionally disturbing to me.
This has nothing to do with god since some atheists are against aborting a possible life.
You can argue with scientific facts and I will be open-minded but this does not mean that I can control my emotions.

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abacacus
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16 Jan 2012, 7:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Abortion is only that, abortion. It is NOT a human life, it is a fertilized egg. It is incapable of existing outside the womb.

A fetus aborted in the third trimester is more than a fertilized egg.

ruveyn

If it is removed from the womb, will it survive?

If not, it is also not yet a human.

Although I do support regulating abortions to early on in the pregnancy.

DentArthurDent
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16 Jan 2012, 8:45 pm

artrat wrote:

A spontaneous abortion is incomparable to purposely aborting a child.

I couldn't agree more, aborting a "child" would be murder and as such entirely unethical. A 12 week old foetus is far removed from birth (the beginning of childhood) and has many chances of becoming " incompatible with life". If you were to refrain from using language such as "child" to describe a foetus you might find it easier to control your emotions.

puddingmouse
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16 Jan 2012, 8:51 pm

artrat wrote:

You can argue with scientific facts and I will be open-minded but this does not mean that I can control my emotions.

With all due respect, given how serious this topic is and given the fact that it effects other people's rights on a fundamental level, if you can't have some form of detachment, you're probably better off not having this debate.

It's a free world though.

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Last edited by puddingmouse on 16 Jan 2012, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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