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What Is Your Main Grievance with Obama's Presidency?

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Conservatives, what is your main grievance with the Obama presidency?
President Barack Obama lacks legitimacy for the office of President. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
President Obama is incompetent or lacks executive experience. 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Obama puts too much faith in government and does not understand decentralized, market-driven dynamics. 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
Obama hates the wealthy, business, and capitalism. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
He's bad for my self-interest. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
His administration is corrupt. 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
He doesn't support traditional family values. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
I'm a liberal or otherwise just checking the poll results. 50%  50%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 36

Kraichgauer
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11 Feb 2012, 2:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
He promised to stop wars. We have more wars than before.


We will probably have a war with Iran conveniently before the election. We will be told that we must continue our Leadership to prosecute the War.

FDR used his war to get extra terms. (It was legal in those days).

That is how FDR got his fourth term and became President for Life.

ruveyn


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shrox
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11 Feb 2012, 3:14 pm

I want a president with more cowbell.



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11 Feb 2012, 3:38 pm

shrox wrote:
I want a president with more cowbell.


Image

There you go :)



Kraichgauer
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11 Feb 2012, 3:46 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
shrox wrote:
I want a president with more cowbell.


Image

There you go :)


I have to admit, I don't get the cowbell reference.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 3:59 pm

Obres wrote:
Obama's a conservative's wet dream. Bailing out banks with no strings attached, backing down on public health care, executing American citizens without a trial and generally trampling on civil liberties. What more do you right-wingers want?

As for me, I'd like an actual liberal to vote for. This next election, will be between two Republicans.


If you honestly think that way, you really, truly need to be educated on what a true conservsative is. A true conservative only wants what the founding fathers intended: A strong defense that would blow anyone off the planet (Washington said it best that the best way to avoid war is to be prepared for it); a weak but equitable justice system that doesn't legislate from the bench, no political parties or special interests, and a government so mall that all that is needed to pay for it are tariffs (which is what we had until Woodrow Wilson came on the scene). Even Jefferson, who was a flaming liberal by the standards of his day, believed in small government.

That is why I fought for my country - not for this big government beauractic liberal BS.


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11 Feb 2012, 4:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have to admit, I don't get the cowbell reference.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That goes back to a Saturday Night Live sketch with Blue Oyster Cult and Christopher Walken :) Let me see if I can find a video.

ETA: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/628756/
I couldn't find the complete sketch on youTube.



Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 11 Feb 2012, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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11 Feb 2012, 4:22 pm

Longshanks wrote:
Obres wrote:
Obama's a conservative's wet dream. Bailing out banks with no strings attached, backing down on public health care, executing American citizens without a trial and generally trampling on civil liberties. What more do you right-wingers want?

As for me, I'd like an actual liberal to vote for. This next election, will be between two Republicans.


If you honestly think that way, you really, truly need to be educated on what a true conservsative is. A true conservative only wants what the founding fathers intended: A strong defense that would blow anyone off the planet (Washington said it best that the best way to avoid war is to be prepared for it); a weak but equitable justice system that doesn't legislate from the bench, no political parties or special interests, and a government so mall that all that is needed to pay for it are tariffs (which is what we had until Woodrow Wilson came on the scene). Even Jefferson, who was a flaming liberal by the standards of his day, believed in small government.

That is why I fought for my country - not for this big government beauractic liberal BS.


Try to run the country today with the small, 19th century government the founders had founded. I think they understood times would change, and with it, government would have to grow to accommodate said changes.
And the government in fact had grown substantially under the Republican demigod, Reagan.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 4:31 pm

Again, you are monotonously selective, sir. The government grew more under the Johnson, Nixon, and Carter administrations than under Reagan. Reagan was the least of the four. Check your Congressional Quarterlies.

- Longshanks


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simon_says
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11 Feb 2012, 4:47 pm

The founding fathers didnt believe in a standing army. Times changed. They knew they would change and Jefferson goes on at length about his desire for future citizens not to be bound by the regulations and practices of his time.

One funny bit is that Jefferson's quote about refreshing the tree of liberty with blood is partially about rebels being ignorant. He says that it's inevitable that ignorant and misinformed elements of the country will want to rebel. He basically says let them come and we'll correct, pacify and pardon them. That a few deaths every century don't mean much and that it's a good reminder for everyone (rulers and rebels). He's not really casting these hypothetical rebels in a positive light.



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11 Feb 2012, 5:02 pm

Longshanks wrote:
Again, you are monotonously selective, sir. The government grew more under the Johnson, Nixon, and Carter administrations than under Reagan. Reagan was the least of the four. Check your Congressional Quarterlies.

- Longshanks


And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



CoMF
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11 Feb 2012, 6:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


According to data from the U.S. Dept of the Treasury, the increase in the national debt under Reagan was $1.77 trillion dollars. Under our current President with a Democratic supermajority in both chambers of Congress for the first two years of his term, it increased by $4.73 trillion, which is not far behind the $4.9 trillion Gee Dumble-ya added to the national debt over his two terms.

Just sayin'...

Source: FactCheck.org, "Dueling Debt Deceptions"



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11 Feb 2012, 6:33 pm

JNathanK wrote:
Obviously, the polling options were written by a neo-con, because there are genuine reasons for liberals or people who voted for Obama to not like him.

For example, he didn't push hard enough to pass a payer, healthcare system, he didn't get us out of Iraq war in the time frame he campaigned on, he didn't close Guantanamo Bay, he didn't make the government more transparent, etc etc.

Shame on you for your lack of objective thinking.

Well, no, I am actually liberal and was trying to get a better idea of the Right's criticisms, being already familiar with the Left's:
NeantHumain wrote:
Conservatives, what is your main grievance with the Obama presidency?

I would have put conservatives in the subject line too, but I ran out of space. I was going to start another poll for liberals/progressives and moderates, but it looks like someone else already has.



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11 Feb 2012, 6:43 pm

CoMF wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


According to data from the U.S. Dept of the Treasury, the increase in the national debt under Reagan was $1.77 trillion dollars. Under our current President with a Democratic supermajority in both chambers of Congress for the first two years of his term, it increased by $4.73 trillion, which is not far behind the $4.9 trillion Gee Dumble-ya added to the national debt over his two terms.

Just sayin'...

Source: FactCheck.org, "Dueling Debt Deceptions"


As I understand it, a great deal of that debt under Obama came to be because Bush had conducted the two wars off the books. Obama simply accepted that our military actions should be part of the budget, as disturbing as that reality might be.
Things might have worked out better if Bush's promise that the war would pay for itself with the Iraqi oil reserves actually had materialized.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 10:56 pm

simon_says wrote:
The founding fathers didnt believe in a standing army. Times changed. They knew they would change and Jefferson goes on at length about his desire for future citizens not to be bound by the regulations and practices of his time.

One funny bit is that Jefferson's quote about refreshing the tree of liberty with blood is partially about rebels being ignorant. He says that it's inevitable that ignorant and misinformed elements of the country will want to rebel. He basically says let them come and we'll correct, pacify and pardon them. That a few deaths every century don't mean much and that it's a good reminder for everyone (rulers and rebels). He's not really casting these hypothetical rebels in a positive light.


I beg to defer. Some of the founding fathers did not favor a standing army. Others did. It was about evenly split. Washington advocated both a standing army and navy and, in his farewell address, admonished the nation to remember that the best way to avoid war was to be constantly prepared for it. Adams advocated the same. Jefferson disfavored it until facing a potential war with France, and then changed his mind. In fact, to my recollection, Jefferson issued a call for 13,000 troops at one time. Madison and Monroe both favored standing armies. John Hancock , Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry and Alexander Hamilton all favored standing armies as time went on.

-Longshanks


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11 Feb 2012, 11:12 pm

Longshanks wrote:
simon_says wrote:
The founding fathers didnt believe in a standing army. Times changed. They knew they would change and Jefferson goes on at length about his desire for future citizens not to be bound by the regulations and practices of his time.

One funny bit is that Jefferson's quote about refreshing the tree of liberty with blood is partially about rebels being ignorant. He says that it's inevitable that ignorant and misinformed elements of the country will want to rebel. He basically says let them come and we'll correct, pacify and pardon them. That a few deaths every century don't mean much and that it's a good reminder for everyone (rulers and rebels). He's not really casting these hypothetical rebels in a positive light.


I beg to defer. Some of the founding fathers did not favor a standing army. Others did. It was about evenly split. Washington advocated both a standing army and navy and, in his farewell address, admonished the nation to remember that the best way to avoid war was to be constantly prepared for it. Adams advocated the same. Jefferson disfavored it until facing a potential war with France, and then changed his mind. In fact, to my recollection, Jefferson issued a call for 13,000 troops at one time. Madison and Monroe both favored standing armies. John Hancock , Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry and Alexander Hamilton all favored standing armies as time went on.

-Longshanks


And yet, there are people on the far right who insist that prior to the Civil War, there were only state militias, and accuse Lincoln of ending the idyllic militarization of state rights.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 11:24 pm

CoMF wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


According to data from the U.S. Dept of the Treasury, the increase in the national debt under Reagan was $1.77 trillion dollars. Under our current President with a Democratic supermajority in both chambers of Congress for the first two years of his term, it increased by $4.73 trillion, which is not far behind the $4.9 trillion Gee Dumble-ya added to the national debt over his two terms.

Just sayin'...

Source: FactCheck.org, "Dueling Debt Deceptions"


Okay, numbers guy. Now let's talk about the deficit on steroids that Obama's got us in with no approved budget in over 1,000 days. I suppose you'll find a lame excuse to blame the Republicans for that.


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