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edgewaters
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06 May 2012, 11:32 pm

Joker wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
Or that you don't like the fact that many people have a religious faith that almost sounds like your prejudice against religious people. I thought since your a atheist they do not have such prejudice beliefs?


That's ridiculous. Disagreeing with an idea is not a prejudice against any person. Or, as Christians say, "Hate the sin but not the sinner".


Funny how quickly you are to rebuke my opinon :wink:




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abacacus
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07 May 2012, 2:17 am

Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


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07 May 2012, 12:42 pm

abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


To claim it is a fact you must have proof of your cliams which you don't :wink:



abacacus
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07 May 2012, 1:20 pm

Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


To claim it is a fact you must have proof of your cliams which you don't :wink:


The bible has laws. It is stated in the bible that christians must follow those laws. You don't.

The only conclusion based off of those facts, is that you are not a christian.


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Joker
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07 May 2012, 1:29 pm

abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


To claim it is a fact you must have proof of your cliams which you don't :wink:


The bible has laws. It is stated in the bible that christians must follow those laws. You don't.

The only conclusion based off of those facts, is that you are not a christian.


Yes and I have stated those laws to you which I follow plenty of times now the laws of moses which are the laws christians are to follow. Moral of the story your opinon of me is very irrelevant. Every time you give me a question I will change the answer why because it's funny to me :lol:



Yoshie777
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07 May 2012, 1:55 pm

I am a Christian and I also believe that a relationship with God is the most important. Right now, due to my life changing, I don't have a church, but I help run an outreach and I believe that it will grow. A lot of things have happened to me that I cannot really explain very well on WP, but I assure you that these things are way beyond the comprehensions of my family and I. Let's just say that supernatural events have occured and my family and I have taken our faith to the next level. HE is now the center of everything in our lives.


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Joker
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07 May 2012, 2:01 pm

Yoshie777 wrote:
I am a Christian and I also believe that a relationship with God is the most important. Right now, due to my life changing, I don't have a church, but I help run an outreach and I believe that it will grow. A lot of things have happened to me that I cannot really explain very well on WP, but I assure you that these things are way beyond the comprehensions of my family and I. Let's just say that supernatural events have occured and my family and I have taken our faith to the next level. HE is now the center of everything in our lives.


I am glad to hear that but just be ready for the WP atheists to attack you for posting that.



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07 May 2012, 2:15 pm

Joker wrote:
Yoshie777 wrote:
I am a Christian and I also believe that a relationship with God is the most important. Right now, due to my life changing, I don't have a church, but I help run an outreach and I believe that it will grow. A lot of things have happened to me that I cannot really explain very well on WP, but I assure you that these things are way beyond the comprehensions of my family and I. Let's just say that supernatural events have occured and my family and I have taken our faith to the next level. HE is now the center of everything in our lives.


I am glad to hear that but just be ready for the WP atheists to attack you for posting that.


I guess I'll just have to be a duck. I've already fought the atheist battle before and I have no desire to fight again. Just let them believe what they wish.


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soutthpaw
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07 May 2012, 3:55 pm

Joker wrote:
:wink:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Make up your mind. First you say you don't follow the OT, now you say you do. You're picking and choosing your faith. You aren't a christian, you're a guy making his own little religion out of an old book.


I follow the laws of moses if their are laws in the bible but if their not of the laws of moses I do not follow thenm the last thing I need is a atheist telling me what I am and am not :wink: you talking about God in the first place is very silly and a waste of your time go talk about science or something not related to religion it sutis you more :lol:


I will gladly tell you what you are not, when you are not it. It's much the same as I will gladly tell someone with no qualifications they aren't a quantum physicist.

I will stop talking about god, when god is completely erased from politics, laws, and other areas of extremely broad effect. It would be far sillier of me to accept christian laws that I firmly believe are horseapples than it is for me to argue. Aside from that, I enjoy religious debates.


Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


SO when you cannot defend your position just scapegoat the via forum rules? It sounds like he is making a valid point... and I also agree with his last paragraph by the way...



soutthpaw
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07 May 2012, 3:57 pm

abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


To claim it is a fact you must have proof of your cliams which you don't :wink:


The bible has laws. It is stated in the bible that christians must follow those laws. You don't.

The only conclusion based off of those facts, is that you are not a christian.


Oh boy another great signature line.. :roll:



soutthpaw
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07 May 2012, 4:05 pm

Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Joker wrote:

Id be careful that almost sounds like a attack towards me which is against the RULES


Where's the attack? I am making a statement of fact. I'm not insulting you, I'm not belittling you, I'm stating the facts.


To claim it is a fact you must have proof of your cliams which you don't :wink:


The bible has laws. It is stated in the bible that christians must follow those laws. You don't.

The only conclusion based off of those facts, is that you are not a christian.


Yes and I have stated those laws to you which I follow plenty of times now the laws of moses which are the laws christians are to follow. Moral of the story your opinon of me is very irrelevant. Every time you give me a question I will change the answer why because it's funny to me :lol:


Again he answered you question with using logic and reasoning and an easy to follow logical argument. It is not an opinion... again you cannot defend it so u create a totally pointless response that does not even challange the argument made.. which means its most likely correct if you cannot prove it incorrect.



shrox
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07 May 2012, 4:21 pm

Questions?



AngelRho
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07 May 2012, 5:36 pm

soutthpaw wrote:
which means its most likely correct if you cannot prove it incorrect.

No, it is correct if it is correct. The INability to prove something incorrect has little to do with the likelihood of something being correct or not. It could be someone is unable to prove something simply because they don't know HOW to prove it. Not knowing HOW to prove something doesn't mean that the proof itself is impossible.



soutthpaw
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07 May 2012, 7:27 pm

AngelRho wrote:
soutthpaw wrote:
which means its most likely correct if you cannot prove it incorrect.

No, it is correct if it is correct. The INability to prove something incorrect has little to do with the likelihood of something being correct or not. It could be someone is unable to prove something simply because they don't know HOW to prove it. Not knowing HOW to prove something doesn't mean that the proof itself is impossible.

You just described the definition of FAITH in not so specific terms. Also the likelyhood of it being correct or incorrect argument only works if there is equal lack of proof on both sides. this is the common argument for/against the existence of GOD or anything supernatural in nature.
The point is not being able to dispute the argument


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AngelRho
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07 May 2012, 10:42 pm

soutthpaw wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
soutthpaw wrote:
which means its most likely correct if you cannot prove it incorrect.

No, it is correct if it is correct. The INability to prove something incorrect has little to do with the likelihood of something being correct or not. It could be someone is unable to prove something simply because they don't know HOW to prove it. Not knowing HOW to prove something doesn't mean that the proof itself is impossible.

You just described the definition of FAITH in not so specific terms. Also the likelyhood of it being correct or incorrect argument only works if there is equal lack of proof on both sides. this is the common argument for/against the existence of GOD or anything supernatural in nature.
The point is not being able to dispute the argument

I'm just making a general observation about logic that has nothing to do with religion specifically.

Here's an example: Is O.J. Simpson a murderer? The answer is that we don't know with absolute certainty. Maybe he is a murderer, maybe he is not. There is only one correct solution--either he killed her or he didn't. The prosecution made what many believed was a strong case against him, but in the end they were unable to convince a jury that he was guilty. We might say they were unable to "prove" Simpson guilty of murder.

But just because they were unable to prove it, that doesn't magically bring a murder victim back to life. Nor does it make Simpson not "not guilty" if he committed a crime.

A logical argument will be lost or won depending on who best knows how to attack or defend a position following strict rules that avoid reasoning pitfalls. I've seen many a Christian end up on the losing side for no better reason than simply not having all their facts straight. Another mistake I often see is attempting to respond to every single point the opponent raises without first considering whether it is worth responding to. And by that I mean not knowing things like red herrings, strawman arguments, burden of proof shifts, and ad hominem attacks. Once a person falls for a distraction, the argument inherently takes an illogical direction. That doesn't mean, for example, that someone making an argument in favor of the existence of God is wrong about whether God exists or not. It just means he is unable to prove the existence of God using a faulty line of reasoning. It is possible one could win an argument and still be wrong.



Evinceo
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08 May 2012, 12:03 am

abacacus wrote:
Here's one:

Why is this amazingly bloodthirsty and blatantly psychopathic "god" so revered for demanding infants be killed, people be killed by having rocks thrown at them, people be burned alive, etc?


It's all about context. In it's time, yeah, it was monstrous. The whole "rule of law" + "sane laws" thing was still being hammered out. In modern Judaism you need to consider that the crazy of ancient laws is mediated by the sanity of the Talmud-the ancient word isn't the last word. In modern day Christianity, it does not really matter, since most* Christians have no idea what's in the OT, and only use a few choice quotes of the NT. It's probably not fair to call Christians out on the bible-it might as well be a brick for all the value it's given. The problem stems from the constant use of out-of-context bible quotes by people with agendas, and the persistent refusal to go look them up and see where they are.

Nobody knows about the part where Moses is shown to be a war criminal in Numbers because nobody cares about Numbers.

(*Disclaimer: This only applies to every single christian I've ever met. Perhaps there are exceptions.)