Get rid of the laws and let the humans run wild!

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thylejren
there is also one on als but i dont know the name of it.

christiania was just included in the protected cultural treasures of denmark, this was done after several years of debate and in the end the people there had to submit to building codes and buy the buildings.
its true that they in that sense are not a commune anymore, doesnt exclude thylejren though i guess half of the people there work normal jobs so if that is a strict criteria then i think you are right.

You have demonstrated yourself to be a liar, and there's an end on't. Your credibility will be forever crippled as, "the boy who lied about the pirates."

All you have succeeded in doing is giving your opponents a weapon to throw at you from now until you finally leave this place in a fit of impotent rage.

Which is a shame, because you would have had a worthwhile contribution to make if you had behaved like a responsible adult.

Ok lets look at the political history of the movements for anarchism vs communism in the 19th & 20th centuries and their practical achievements.

Both started out as alternatives to the evil capitalist system embraced by 'the west'.

Communism when put into practice in some form in the guise of the Soviet Union managed to industrialise a large chunk of eastern europe in a very short space of time. They managed to do this despite separating themselves completely from the capitalist world and while it is true that there was a lot of espionage and theft of intellectual property going on at the time it is also true that the Soviet Union managed to create a lot of scientific advances off it's own bat that were not replicated in the west. For example, titanium submarines, ion engines, gemstone manufacturing. When surveyed by PEW Global as a long running project after the break up of the soviet union, in 19 out of 20 ex-soviet union countries the majority of normal people thought life was better under the soviet union than life was at the present time, 20 years after collapse.

Now lets look at anarchism is it capable of providing a good standard of living for several generations and several hundred million people?

It has never been able to even sustain a few thousand people before it collapses. Lets not forget that the OP is suggesting that anarchism is viable alternative for a society the size of the USA and not just an alternative lifestyle for a few hippies that want to drop out and get stoned.

Lets take a look at the website for thylejren:

http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/thylejren

In that first picture, those clothes, are they purchased in Danish shops, or did the people of the glorious anarchist revolution make them from scratch? They are purchased.

The clean shaven chap in that photo, did he shave that morning with a purchased razor, or did the people of thylejren build a mine to mine the raw materials for a razor and a build a huge razorblade factory to provide cheap razors? It was purchased from wider Danish society.

In the second picture, a man wearing glasses with plastic arms.

Are they technologically capable of retrieving oil, refining it and turning it into plastic?
Do they have an education system capable of producing opticians?
Do they have the technological and scientific capabilities to make ultra high purity glass and grind lenses?
Can they do so to make the price of a pair glasses so low, that even the poor can afford them?

Even the suggestion that they are capable of doing this sort of thing is obviously absurd.

The same with printing technology for the flyer in the third picture.

The same with the bicycle in the fourth picture.

The OP is suggesting that anarchism can result in a better life for a whole society and yet if overnight the wider Danish society vanished the living standard of the people of thylejren would drop cataclysmically, because they are utterly dependent on the wider Danish society to provide their quality of life and can produce nothing themselves.

By contrast, if thylejren were to vanish over night, what technological wonders would become unavailable to the people of Denmark?

See my point?

As an alternative lifestyle for a few stoners and hippies, sure it works as long as it is tolerated by the society they are dependent on but as an alternative to that society?!

I will admit to finding your responses to Raptor rather amusing, visagrunt. He does seem to invite it, refusing accountability for actions of poor taste and flaunting his disrespect for anyone with views with which he disagrees. However, after explaining to him my annoyance at being struck by one of his stray insults (intended for you) and being offered a curt, insincere reply, I really don't think there's any sense in taking him seriously. I believe it would be, to use your words, the "responsible adult" thing to just let this go now and ignore him. I realize his avatar misdeeds may be a sensitive topic, but he's already damaged his own credibility by his flippant attitude; I don't think there's any reason to repetitively gloat over it.

[quote="DC"][/quote]

you do realize that i agreed with you right?
i even wrote so

but that is because of the defintion(i think the concept of a ""commune"" has evolved both in the ideology behind and the implementation thereof, for the better), i spent quite a bit of time there and there is nothing anarchistic about it, what it is however is a collection fo people with a very liberal view of what rules society needs to have and at what cost to them.

to them it has nothing to do with directly sepperating yourselves from the surrounding society but to find a way to coexist in a way prefferable to them, they have managed to do so quite well.

".....demonstrated yourself to be a liar" I guess that's a way to make it look not so much like a personal attack but WTF is an "on't"? Hitting the sauce a little early, eh?


And if that's not enough of a weapon I'll happily give them more.


Do I remind you of someone who would allow themselves to be thrown into a fit of rage? Again, go easy on the scotch until a decent hour.


Doesn't amount to much of a shame for me. "Behave like a responsible adult"? That sounds rather conservative if U ask me.

Ach Tung! THIS is the German Pirate flag.



http://www.npr.org/2012/06/06/154388897 ... ome-ashore

I wasn't sure if you were agreeing with the small point that people in communes have jobs and mortgages etc or the larger point that these micro 'opt-out' societies are still utterly dependent on the system they are 'opting-out' of.

Besides, it's nice to have a exchange with someone in PPR in a civilised fashion and the rest of the thread is getting derailed with nazi pirates...

Seriously!

Arrrg. This be a thread jackin' matey! xD

Dc:

I don't suggest anarchism take over and everyone fend for themselves, i'm picking and choosing certain things from both right wing and left wing... no laws, yet social support.

It's structured anarchism, if you want to give it a name.

The clothing factories will keep on clothing and the razor factories will keep on razoring. The plan involves giving people an alternative means of living before pulling the legal rug out from under them. Not before!

Chevand wrote:



Yes, I’ve never seen a liberal get snotty over someone disagreeing with them or someone else in their camp. What could I have been thinking?????? Pooey on me!


Did even you read what you wrote before you posted it? There’s no way any sober person could see it as anything other than neurotic hysteria. My response, short as it was, gives it more dignity that it rates.

Chevand wrote (from another thread):


If you decide to go off on a half page hissy fit over a stray (in your own words) insult (a bit of a stretch for this forum I might add) for someone else that was a response to his insult to me don’t expect any sympathy or whatever from me.


Um, in case you hadn’t noticed that avatar is like gone. It couldn’t be any more gone.
I've used that avatar twice now with little to no butthurt. To be honest it’s never occurred to me to be offended by an itty bitty little avatar. Even if one did offend me my vanity wouldn’t abide by me squalling over it.

Your boy visagrunt never took notice of it until he couldn’t win an argument with me about the role of government in some other thread. I can’t say that I won it either but I guess that wasn’t good enough. So then in yet another thread he elected to exercise what I call obligatory offense at my avatar, in his case occasioned by his own failure to win a debate (if that’s what you want to call it) to his satisfaction.

Hey, I guess sometimes attacking a little avatar under the pretense of international law is all some people have to hang on to......

I’ve debated with visagrunt on other occasions in the past few and at least respected (or what passes for it here) his input even though I might not have agreed with it. Lately, though, I’ve noticed a trend toward incivility and I guess what we’ve been seeing the past day or so is just an intensification of it to the point of, well, childishness for lack of a better term.

A piece of friendly advice: Don’t take yourself, visagrunt, me or anyone else too seriously in the PPR forum. Just sort of take it all in stride, sling a little mud here and there, and don't sweat it when some gets on you. Leave the serious stuff for the other forums of WP as was obviously intended.

Happy trails

It's not the avatar itself, Raptor, it's why you chose it that has everyone wondering. Given your views in general, some of us do wonder. Perhaps you'd like to explain ... or perhaps you'd like to leave it to our imaginations. You choose.

Raptor has noticed a trend towards incivility. A rare moment of self-reflection? Or a glimpse into a profoundly deluded mind?

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of raptors.....


Yes, all conservatives are Nazis......oops......I mean pirates. Just ask any liberal.


And cheat you all out of having your imaginations run WILD? It just wouldn't be right of me.


I'm afraid that train already left the station, edgewaters.


Vigilans wrote:

Taking a break between the ass whuppins Longshanks is giving you over you're little chat about Hitler? I was gonna jump in there but it was enough to watch someone else shred you.
Sweet dreams....

[quote="DC"][/quote]

not to worry, others that dont live here quite still gain smething from it.

I don't generally make that assumption, but when they begin wrapping themselves in Nazi icons, well ... one wonders. With good cause I think. I guess you'd prefer not to explain so I guess I'll keep wondering.

I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing him. The reason I said that is, from what I've read of visagrunt's posts, I seem to recall that he is Jewish. If the image you decided to use was indeed an SS symbol-- regardless of whether you intended malice or not-- I wouldn't blame him for taking personal offense.