Why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most groups.

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There were quite a few Jewish composers in the 20th century(along with Jewish rockstars). But as far as visual artists go, very few Jews there. What are Jews up to these days? Particularly those in the US......

Self-promotion seems to be a big part of American Jewish(and Italian)culture. Which probably explains why so many of them are in Hollywood and the Media.

Still excelling in science, math, software and medicine.

Here is the reason: to stand out in these fields one needs demonstrated ability, not institutional and family connections. To write a good paper in physics requires brains, not the right "connections" from college or membership in the "right" fraternity. That is strictly for the gentiles. Skull and Bones is a Gentile Thing for example.

ruveyn

still more to do with culture than anything else, that is to say that ti isnt "jews" but "people who focus on education aand intelelctual pursuits" same goes for asia, they are actively encouraged by culture to attain proficiency in the skills of the modern world, so they do.

Jewishness is a much culture and custom as it is religion. There is a -Jewish People-. The cultures has produced a people and an identity. Think of Jewishness as a nationality without a specific land base. (Israel is fairly recent compared to how long Jews have been around -- over 3000 years). Jews have learned to live and keep their identity in many lands and many different circumstances. Very few other human groups have done that.

ruveyn

it is becoming much more common in the modern world though, that said as longa as we agree that we are talking a learned difference and that it isnt excactly unique then i dont see what the big fuss is.

shouldnt you be carefull aboout using sweeping generalizations when you are talking about an effect that you have little practical knowledge about in the grand scheme of things?

I have been Jewish for 76 years and did my time learning the trade in a Torah-Talmud school. I don't buy the theology any more but I am thoroughly informed of the culture. Hell, I live it.

ruveyn

yes but what is discussed here isnt only about the jewish culture, but every single culture and subculture in the entire world, to be more precise the relationship with and traditions of learning within each culture.

Funny how the people I hear about in Science and Mathematics THESE DAYS(not to mention software) are mostly from India(and Persia too). Medicine is also being taken over by Indians(paging Dr Sanjay Gupta!). What great Jews are there in software besides Sergey Brinn?

On the other hand though, plenty of Jews in the legal profession, entertainment, and media production. Great Jewish film makers are still at work.

Medicine, science and math is alive and well in the U.S. The U.S. no longer has a monopoly on the brains of the world and the resources to use them. As Thomas Friedman writes, the world is becomming "flat". India and China and other parts of Asia are assuming a rightful position in science and technology.

Jews of a scientific bent to most of their work in math and the physical sciences, but you will that Jews are over represented in the software industry. Remember, Jews are only 1/60 th of population of the U.S. Jews have never had a monopoly on genius and brains. Many folks from Asia -- India and the Orient have stepped up to take their rightful place in both the theory and practice of science and mathematics. Jews have been disproportionately at work in technical fields, but they never "owned" them.

I am happy to see that science and math are now world activities and not just the property of European and North American academic elites. Let a thousand flowers bloom!

ruveyn

Ruveyn's the one who's presented most of the evidence on this thread.

We were finding hereditary characteristics long before we knew what genes, or even chromosomes or DNA, were.

In terms of physical traits, that is correct. With mental traits however, like intelligence, I don't buy that for a moment.

Funny you think that because...[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx-x7BrgjSA[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO4-Gu5Ov34&feature=relmfu[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arTQGqE6TEU[/youtube]

are you suggesting that intelligence is supernatural in origin?

Hello, more Nobel laureates and higher average IQ are fine stats. But they do not really imply that the whole group is better than other groups at those things.

It is the mark of groupism to try to embrace the success of individuals as the group's own success. But I have come here to defend individuals. In the name of individuals, I would kindly ask groups to stop trying to steal our successes.

In that regards , let me contribute a theoretical mechanism (just like ruveyn's theoretical mechanism in which families inherit 'intelligence') that allows a group that is terrible for individual accomplishment to be able to generate great individuals as an opposite reaction.

When a culture makes it difficult for you to be an individual and when it is so orthodox that it kills science. The few individuals who get through it and manage to reclaim their individualism and battle for science will be few, but a lot more powerful. After overcoming the issue of their culture, they will find it easier to succeed once out of their culture and they will be much better than average.

It would be inaccurate, even unethical to include these exceptional successful individuals when grading a whole group. Specially if the individuals have done such a great effort to run away from it.

In order to test this theory, I would have to analyze the lives of the Nobel laureates. Let us begin with Einstein. Do you think he has retained his Jewish cultural legacy? I will be reckless and say No. If you have some evidence that he did, please counteract.

Then I headed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Je ... _laureates

The first one, Paul Heyse. I read his biography, and there is a huge disconnect from Jewish culture, regardless of his genes.

Second in the list: Henri-Louis Bergson

Ok...

Unfortunately, like ruveyn said, there are a lot of Jewish laureates, so I can't go on forever. Please feel free to find counter-examples. Three guys is by far not pervasive. I am just mentioning how I have not yet found a reason to believe my theory is less valid than ruveyn's. If I do find one, I will admit it.


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tl;dr: What if these great people are not great people because of their culture, but in spite of it?

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 08 Sep 2012, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NO.

I'm suggesting that before the 19th century, it was unknown to science where intelligence came from. Psychometrics, which gave rise to the Intelligence Quotient Exam, was invented in the 19th Europe. It's main impetus was the study of the mentally ret*d and mentally ill, who were known in past centuries as village idiots. Heredity was observed and recorded as far back as the middle ages, but it wasn't until Gregor Mendel actually made detailed studies of heredity and was able to infer the basic rules as to how traits are passed on from parent to child. And that my friend, is why I'm cynical that there was ANY sort of "breeding program" among medieval and renaissance Jewry to promote superior intellects! Because nobody back then had any idea of what made certain people good scholars and where that talent came from.