Pat Condell: "A word to rioting Muslims"

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Well, the black shirts suit him.

I watched a few clips, and my general impression is confirmed. He's not a very nice man, to say the least. Do you remember those Harry Enfield characters - the self-righteous brothers? "Oi! ______! No!" It's like that.

I find it hard to take someone given to nationalism seriously when they inveigh against religion. I'm sure it's some form of fallacy on my part, but what's life without a little spice?

And to pick atheism as a - no pun intended - crusade, as a thing in itself? As Terry Eagleton, writing on Dawkins, had it:

Last edited by Hopper on 21 Sep 2012, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

His nationalism is more of the independentist variety rather than Union Jack-waving for the sake of it. He wants the UK to be able to govern itself - not exactly a radical viewpoint outside the European political elite. He despises the BNP and promotes civic, liberal, independent nationalism.

He is an atheist vlogger, yes, and Condell passionately believes in atheism but really he's more interested in promoting secularism - i.e. he's all in favour of people having personal faith, i.e. he doesn't care what people believe, as long as they keep it away from him and don't use it as an excuse to harm or bully others. He also believes in removing, as far as possible, religion altogether from government. I doubt he'd ban religious parties, because that would be anti-democratic but you'd have to ask him.

he doesnt seem that unique or that intelligent.

His standpoint seems synonomous with the barstool politics of the Sun reading Little England brigade. Really him and his ilk are ten a penny.

Which is?

"I'm not racist but..."

"Islam is bad...."

"Europe is bad..."

You're misrepresenting the arguments. Oh dear.

He isn't a racist. I can't find anywhere where he's criticised people purely because of their race. He's criticised lots of people because of their behaviour, but never because of their race.

The beliefs in Islam are utterly abhorrent. If you want to defend some of the stuff in the Quran or Hadiths, be my guest. It'll put you back in the 8th century. A lot of the genuinely moderate Muslims (rather than those who call themselves "moderate" but really aren't) actually ignore a lot of what is written in there. The Quran calls them failures and threatens punishment for Muslims who won't take the war to the infidel. Some of the terrorists, or "extremists" if you like, is taking the message from the Quran - i.e. that it sanctions war and violence - literally.

Europe and the EU are two completely different things. I'm a big fan of Europe, its independent nations and separate cultures. Europe is a beautiful place. I have no love of the EU. People right across Europe feel the same way, too. The ring of stars isn't their flag. They love their neighbours, they just don't want to be forced into a political union that they never asked for nor consented to. Their politicians signed off on it, completely ignoring their electorate.

We need more ex-Muslims on the left for that to happen.

Well, we need more ex-Muslims to 'come out' in general...

They do exist, but they are very, very few in number. There are a few left-wing Muslims and ex-Muslims that will denounce a lot of the behaviour that goes on but to be honest I can probably count them on one hand - in Britain especially. To be quite honest, it would take an awful lot of courage for a Muslim to stand up and be counted and go public with his reservations with Islam, even in Britain. He should expect no end of abuse and death threats from brainwashed soldiers of Allah at the very least and probably an awful lot more to boot.

It's worth pointing out, as well, that not all of the left goes in for this hero-worshipping of Islam (I'm thinking of you here, puddingmouse). A lot of people on the left have been trying to discourage it but, to be honest, the real viciousness these days is more on the far-left than the far-right. I'm not denying or excusing the EDL's behaviour (I think they're often quite thuggish and, yes, it does attract the racist, criminal scum element) but the UAF are soaked in violence and cause more trouble than the demonstrators with their constant threats and violence.

We would only do that out of mutual self-interest. China has a system of state capitalism and not a great human rights records (yes, I know the USA is almost as bad, but that's besides the point).

I thought you were anti-capitalist?

I think most people on the left don't hero-worship Islam, they just stick their heads in the sand about its increasing influence and radicalisation. They don't mean to be apologists, but they are.

Also, I think because I'm a feminist first and socialist second, I see the increasing influence of Islam as a bad thing more readily than someone who has those priorities in the reverse order.

As for the EDL and UAF...meh. I've got bigger fish to fry. Let them fight each other.

Do you have any proof that that statement applies to all people?

And scream "racist!" and "fascist!" at anyone who disagrees.

I think screaming 'racist' or 'fascist' at someone is perfectly apt when they are in fact being racist and/or fascist.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ok4njJXI8[/youtube] To be honest most muslims wont really care it is the ones overseas in the middle east that will go psycho but that is because they are brainwashed to the extreme!! Most muslims I have come across in America are pretty calm folks and are civilized enough to not make a big deal out of it.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEvwfvRpqCA&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

I am, but in many ways i regard China as the lesser of 2 evils due to their not having a unilateralist military foreign policy. They have a chequered human rights history true, but if we're being honest America isn't whiter than white.
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