MarketAndChurch wrote:
It works in Singapore, it can work here if the Muslims would learn a little tolerance to those who don't share their beliefs.
Singapore isn't exactly the most liberal country on Earth, though. It routinely censors religious debates and content that may be considered "offensive" to one set of religious fairy cake believers or the other. It's really not a model I would necessarily choose.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
The UN is an immoral body, capable of nothing, and when it does act or condemn, it is on the behalf of tyrants and human rights violators of the worse offenses against humanity...
Agreed - why would Israel, or indeed any country on Earth, take lessons on human rights from the likes of Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Iran, the Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, Yemen? Why would they take any notice of an organisation of some of the world's very worst child rapists, child murderers, child slavers, women repressors, terrorist funders, spirit crushers as these lot? If people were in Israel's position I think most people would do the exact same thing as what they're doing now.
Can anyone list any country in the OIC delegation that people would actually want to live in (I'll make a partial exception for Turkey)? Almost none of those countries, to a man, woman and child, offer any decent guarantee of freedom.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
and against a democratic socialist state that has done more for humanity in the last 50 years then all arab nations who surround it combined.
Most of the surrounding countries are simply prosperous because of Western and Israeli technology and the oil that comes from the region. Spiritually, they're still in the gutter. Anything else of worth that they do actually have to offer, they readily destroy.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
The Palestinians are the cause of their own misery. The prisoners that Israel holds are mostly scum who should be hanged. The injuries and children that have died is the fault of the Palestinian political and military machine.
Agreed. If you arm children and brainwash them into fighting the enemy, if you fire rockets from places where children are, if you use and abuse children in your disgusting terror war, don't be surprised if those children end up unfortunately being killed.
When Muslims kill and rape Muslim women and sell their young children off to disgusting old men with impunity or destroy Muslim holy sites, Muslim outrage is muted (to put it mildly). When Palestinian children end up being killed during operations where Israel defends itself, Israel is automatically evil.
Yes but Singapore is the only model I can think of that is of the "Modernization without Westernization" class of countries who integrate people of varying number of differences, from ethnicity to religious, the best. The US and western model is only possible with a heavy use of reeducation camps as our values are not easily swappable because of Islam's inherent incompatibility with Liberty.
If Palestine became singapore that would be progress. Westernization would also be a basic requirement in the sense that basic human rights will be protected and the state should be secular. But a secular modern society is something that they have to choose for themselves, something that we can support especially specific movements within their society who also want those things (which exist).
The Israelis are a secular society, that is their choice, spiritually they are in the same boat as all of Western Europe, and most of the secular US, but their humanitarian efforts trumps even most European countries, and their life saving technology is on the scene of every disaster that hits the middle east or anywhere on earth. I do not agree with their secularism. But they are brilliant people, and I believe that if someone made the case to them intellectually for Judaism that they would easily accept it, and discover that they can continue living most of their current "secular" lives, perhaps even a more elevated form of it.
21 Nov 2012, 2:12 am
