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Pat Condell: "Patronising the Palestinians"

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thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 7:37 pm

even though it wasnt a 'state' it had all the industrial and cultural infrastructure of a nation and given time would have become a bona fide nation state had it not been for anglo-zionist intervention and ultimately, aggression.

The fact that it wasnt a state officially doesnt seem to do much to deter the criminal nature of what happened against them.


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daydreamer84
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13 Jan 2013, 7:37 pm

Also the idea that the land was "taken" from the arabs by the jews was cultivated by the Nazi's during world war 2 as part of their propaganda. There was a fight over the land already at that point.............the Arabs were threatened by the amount of Jews who had BOUGHT LAND FROM WEALTHY ARAB LAND OWNERS LEGALLY and settled in Israel and this fear was very beneficial to the Nazi's who could use it to denounce the Jews and the British and French who were (at the time -officially-although they flip/flopped) supporting the jews and not supporting Hitler.



thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 7:38 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
They could just move back to the USA or Europe.


In the early 1920s and 1930s, Jews in Europe were told: "Go to Palestine!"
In the early 21st century, Jews in Palestine are told: "Get out of Palestine!"

Anti semitism isnt rife in the west anymore. It is rife, in the middle east region. At least, thats what you keep telling us.

Now, where would they be safest?


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daydreamer84
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13 Jan 2013, 7:40 pm

thomas81 wrote:
even though it wasnt a 'state' it had all the industrial and cultural infrastructure of a nation and given time would have become a bona fide nation state had it not been for anglo-zionist intervention and ultimately, aggression.

The fact that it wasnt a state officially doesnt seem to do much to deter the criminal nature of what happened against them.


actually that's not true......see my other post. It did not have the infrastructure at all until the Jews came......most of the land was UNINHABITED AND OWNED BY WEALTHY ARAB LAND OWNERS LIVING IN OTHER COUNTRIES UNDER THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:40 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Anti semitism isnt rife in the west anymore.


In parts of Europe, it most certainly is rife Look at, oh, certain Scandinavian cities, for instance. As well as Eastern Europe, naturally, where it's always been there and never gone away.



thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 7:41 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
Also the idea that the land was "taken" from the arabs by the jews was cultivated by the Nazi's during world war 2 as part of their propaganda. There was a fight over the land already at that point.............the Arabs were threatened by the amount of Jews who had BOUGHT LAND FROM WEALTHY ARAB LAND OWNERS LEGALLY and settled in Israel and this fear was very beneficial to the Nazi's who could use it to denounce the Jews and the British and French who were (at the time -officially-although they flip/flopped) supporting the jews and not supporting Hitler.


the anti semitism swung both ways. Anti Semites at the time also supported the Israel project because it was a convienient way of getting them out of their own countries.


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13 Jan 2013, 7:43 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Anti Semites at the time also supported the Israel project because it was a convienient way of getting them out of their own countries.


I think this was also due to the guilt of not protecting the Jews better before the war (by offering them asylum when they needed it). Even Britain, probably one of the most receptive countries to Jews in Europe, didn't do enough.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:44 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Anti semitism isnt rife in the west anymore.


In parts of Europe, it most certainly is rife Look at, oh, certain Scandinavian cities, for instance. As well as Eastern Europe, naturally, where it's always been there and never gone away.


I'm not advocating they go to Poland or Ukraine where it is certainly evident, I will grant you. Scandanavia i am less sure of. I think there its a case of you confusing genuine anti semites with left wing opponents of Israel.

Last time i checked the North East United States had a thriving Jewish community. To the point that an Israeli state in the middle East is redundant. They are certainly faring better there than on the Gaza strip boundary.


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13 Jan 2013, 7:45 pm

Tequila wrote:
Mukherjee80 wrote:
Xenon, good point. In addition, I'd point out:

1. The supposed idea behind multiculturalism is that no one culture should dominate, whereas Israel was always intended to be a Jewish homeland.


There are loads and loads of - often wildly differing - Jewish subcultures in Israel. And then you have the cultures of the Arabs/Bedouins and so on.

Mukherjee80 wrote:
2. The main reason Arabs are still living in Israel is because the Zionist Jews "only" managed to expel 720,000 during the Civil War.


They weren't kicked out, they fled because they were told by their leaders that they could return when all the Jews had been killed. Israel offered them a peace deal a year or two later where they could return.

And Arabs living in Israel have more rights than they do in any Arab country. They can drink, be gay, run for parliament (or even president), and lots more things that are illegal in many surrounding countries.

Mukherjee80 wrote:
3. Perhaps Tequila should read up some more on how the various Jewish groups within Israel are treated by the Ashkenazi majority. Try the article below, for example...


I don't think anyone would dispute that Israel's treatment of some of its minorities is not what it should be. Even the Israeli Government accepts this. They need to work on that for certain. However, it's a damn sight better than what they'd get in the neighbouring Arab countries.

Oh, by the way, the last of Ethiopia's black Jews are making their flight to Israel tomorrow.



They were thrown out. There was one town near the Gaza border where the Israelis since set up a new town on the ruins and the previous Arab town actually helped the Zionists. Some thought it should be allowed to stay. Oh, no. The decision was made. Expel them! And so they were expelled to Gaza.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:47 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
They could just move back to the USA or Europe.


In the early 1920s and 1930s, Jews in Europe were told: "Go to Palestine!"
In the early 21st century, Jews in Palestine are told: "Get out of Palestine!"

Anti semitism isnt rife in the west anymore.


it's still pretty rampant.....granted it isn't as bad as it had historically been.....although before Hitler came into power things were pretty calm in Germany and after the French Revolution the anti-Semitism was thought to have greatly decreased in France and jews were allowed to become professionals which they never had been before. Then a Jewish girl was part of a traitor/rebel organization and there were a series of Jew killings/shop burnings ect. ant-jewish riots. Things seem calm for a long time and then persecution erupts. If the Jews have their own nation state then they theoretically have somewhere to flee to when this occurs. Israel is not such a safe haven any-more, I don't think that just means Jews should surrender it. i think that means we should defend it.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:49 pm

thomas81 wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
Also the idea that the land was "taken" from the arabs by the jews was cultivated by the Nazi's during world war 2 as part of their propaganda. There was a fight over the land already at that point.............the Arabs were threatened by the amount of Jews who had BOUGHT LAND FROM WEALTHY ARAB LAND OWNERS LEGALLY and settled in Israel and this fear was very beneficial to the Nazi's who could use it to denounce the Jews and the British and French who were (at the time -officially-although they flip/flopped) supporting the jews and not supporting Hitler.


the anti semitism swung both ways. Anti Semites at the time also supported the Israel project because it was a convienient way of getting them out of their own countries.


that's true..



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13 Jan 2013, 7:52 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Anti Semites at the time also supported the Israel project because it was a convienient way of getting them out of their own countries.


I think this was also due to the guilt of not protecting the Jews better before the war (by offering them asylum when they needed it). Even Britain, probably one of the most receptive countries to Jews in Europe, didn't do enough.


also true........



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13 Jan 2013, 7:56 pm

Zionism it must be remembered was based on accepting anti-Semitic arguments. The Jews were not real people but parasites, they said, because they did not till the soil or get their hands dirty... they were not attached to the soil. So the Zionists vowed that they'd show themselves in the eyes of anti-Semites a people just like any other, tilling the soil...



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Jan 2013, 8:30 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I don't support Hamas and Fatah because they are dicks. :wtg:


Hamas want to wipe out every Jew on Earth. Fatah want to destroy Israel.

Israel does not want to wipe out every Arab / Muslim on Earth, nor to destroy the Palestinian Territories. In fact, the Israelis would love to come to a peaceful arrangement with the Palestinians. The PPs could have had peace all the way from the 1930s if they had wanted it.

The West has to stand by Israel because if they don't, the Jews will be slaughtered just like always. It's one of history's lessons.



BS. The only reason the west is standing by is to keep an eye on its precious flow of black gold in Iraq and Libya.

They could just move back to the USA or Europe. There wasnt much Jew slaughtering going on around there, last time I checked.

If I was Jewish and I wanted a safe place to live I'd go to Micronesia or Easter Island. I'd get as far away from Israel as I could.


The Jews wanted their own nation in Europe yet were not allowed to realize this goal. Now they have so you shouldn't complain. It's not in Europe.



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13 Jan 2013, 8:32 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Zionism it must be remembered was based on accepting anti-Semitic arguments. The Jews were not real people but parasites, they said, because they did not till the soil or get their hands dirty... they were not attached to the soil. So the Zionists vowed that they'd show themselves in the eyes of anti-Semites a people just like any other, tilling the soil...


That's how they got the jewish settlers motivated to work really hard and cultivate the land. The zionists weren't anti-semites...it was just like saying "you call our people cowards...we'll prove that we aren't !"....it was motivational. Zionism wasn't BASED on that either....it was based on making a safe haven/nation for the jews.