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Sosiologismus
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29 Mar 2013, 10:40 pm

No, they aren't. It usually starts with some brainwave doing something abnormal (epiphany!) or some psychological illness/delusion (the brain tricks you), and then you're left with two possible choices: systemize it, get people involved with it (the social group), write a book about it, threaten people to believe it, preach about it and convince people - OR - try to be rational and contemplate/figure out what has happened. So with telepathy you could either have come up with a new world-changing ideology, or you could have experienced a normal delusion (symptom of psychological illness).



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29 Mar 2013, 11:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I never understood why people seemed to think God knowing the future and free will are mutually exclusive. God knowing what we will choose doesn't make it any less our choice.

If I murder my parents tomorrow, God will have known before I was born. If it is guaranteed that I will murder my parents, then I do not have a choice to make in the matter. If God knows I will or will not murder my parents, then I do not have a choice in the matter.


How does God knowing your choice in advance make it any less your choice? He didn't choose for you, he simply knew what you would choose.



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29 Mar 2013, 11:44 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:
Cei wrote:
If we deny the existence of God, it's a way to avoid responsibility.


How is the idea that an omnipotent being with a plan that has control over your life and soul NOT avoiding responsibility?

Well, there is the view that if there is a God, you will one day be called to account for all of your actions during your life, while if there is not, then there will be no final reckoning, and you will not be held responsible for your actions.

I think it's all a lot of hairsplitting - you get responsibility for your actions whether you like it or not - but it's a fun way for theologians to pass an evening... :)


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jekenai
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30 Mar 2013, 6:25 am

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
If you choose to stop thinking critically, and just allow your own biases to grow stronger, it gets easier to believe in God, but that in and of itself isn't proof. This kind of thinking goes hand in hand with not only religion, but secular ideas.


Thanks for explaining, that's exactly what I wanted to say.



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30 Mar 2013, 10:54 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI[/youtube]


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30 Mar 2013, 11:17 am

Because he's got some explaining to do. :lol:


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30 Mar 2013, 3:49 pm

Tensu wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I never understood why people seemed to think God knowing the future and free will are mutually exclusive. God knowing what we will choose doesn't make it any less our choice.

If I murder my parents tomorrow, God will have known before I was born. If it is guaranteed that I will murder my parents, then I do not have a choice to make in the matter. If God knows I will or will not murder my parents, then I do not have a choice in the matter.


How does God knowing your choice in advance make it any less your choice? He didn't choose for you, he simply knew what you would choose.

Well for a start, God created the world, and he shaped me in my mother's womb. He has set up the world in full knowledge that I will choose what I choose.

I do not have a choice. I can only choose one thing because God has already seen what I will choose. To genuinely have free will, I have to have the ability to choose between options.



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30 Mar 2013, 5:02 pm

If God seems to be hiding, you're looking for him in noisy places.

Quote:
(1Kings 19:11) And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

(1Kings 19:12) And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.



Sosiologismus
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30 Mar 2013, 6:10 pm

The justification and explaining in this thread are of very poor quality, made on completely random, insignificant grounds (made up logic).



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30 Mar 2013, 7:14 pm

Something different you was expecting, maybe?

This forum especially but NOT only the R parts, you got plenty fall please into my trap questions and folks too dumb to realize or too zealous to stay away.

Forget dispassionate.

I could an if I would, but piles [intentional] bdfore swine.

Hard to find ANYONE who actually wants to discuss ANYTHING let alone + / - God.



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30 Mar 2013, 9:50 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Tensu wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I never understood why people seemed to think God knowing the future and free will are mutually exclusive. God knowing what we will choose doesn't make it any less our choice.

If I murder my parents tomorrow, God will have known before I was born. If it is guaranteed that I will murder my parents, then I do not have a choice to make in the matter. If God knows I will or will not murder my parents, then I do not have a choice in the matter.


How does God knowing your choice in advance make it any less your choice? He didn't choose for you, he simply knew what you would choose.

Well for a start, God created the world, and he shaped me in my mother's womb. He has set up the world in full knowledge that I will choose what I choose.

I do not have a choice. I can only choose one thing because God has already seen what I will choose. To genuinely have free will, I have to have the ability to choose between options.


How does him knowing which option you will choose in advance make all other options suddenly not exist?



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31 Mar 2013, 8:44 am

Because he's a hikkikomori!


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31 Mar 2013, 9:54 am

How could there only be one,there's not one of anything.If there is one there would have to be more.A whole passel of 'em. :lol: And why would "he"be a He?Why would he need a giant god penis?? :lol:
And.....since it is.
Image


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31 Mar 2013, 6:39 pm

"He" would be a "He" because English doesn't have a good neuter case to ascribe to living beings; "it" is generally taken to refer to objects. Therefore, we have to ascribe gender, even if it's not actually relevant - and the gender was assigned by a rather sexist society, one that did not consider that a "She" could possibly be an all-powerful Creator (even though, given human biology, that would have been a logical assumption).


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Cei
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31 Mar 2013, 8:12 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:
Cei wrote:
If we deny the existence of God, it's a way to avoid responsibility.


How is the idea that an omnipotent being with a plan that has control over your life and soul NOT avoiding responsibility? Praying for guidance and declaring something was "God's will" are both absolving responsibility.

This is the irony of altruism and atheism. A Christian does good works because they are told to, or because they want to get the "good" afterlife. This is not altruism, as there's a payoff (whether it's a real payoff or not is irrelevant). An atheist has no reason to do good works beyond the desire to do good works. So is it possible to be an altruistic believer?


The believer should ideally do more than that. Not working and just praying for money, for example, is obviously avoiding responsibility as well, yes. You should do whatever you can, besides just trusting in God.

Of course it is possible. That's kind of a stupid question, IMO. Many times I find myself having trouble remembering to do things with God in mind, instead of just helping people first and considering my intentions later. Besides, does doing something because you are told to mean you did not act altruistically? If someone tells you to donate money to a charity, will it not be altruistic for you to do so, even if that person has at that point no way of knowing whether you did or not? On top of that, I consider religion to be not as much a reason to do good works, as a guide on what is good. If someone is totally selfish, will the threat of Hell really deter them? Or will they just convince themselves not to believe in it?



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01 Apr 2013, 2:20 am

Because God only exists in the mind.