US views on evolution

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Isn't it kind of silly to generalize an entire nation of over 310 million people with a very rich history of immigration from every other nation into a set of statistics that say "americans are like this..."

It's impossible to generalize the opinions of 3.1 million let alone 310 million.

Statistics are BS. They are just numbers games and trick questions asked to get those false numbers.

^ exactly where in this thread has this been attempted? With regard to statistics the only vague mention of them would be bound up in the probabilities involved in the creation of life.

Catal Huyuk existed from 13,000 to 8,000 years ago. It had a population of 10,000, large irrigated fields, grain, cattle, and some impressive art.

Tell Halief is even more impresive, many firsts.

Then the great drying that caused the Sahara, lead to the cities being abandoned, with a mass migration to Salsbury Plain, where they built Stonehenge. That from The Human Genome Project.

This is when irrigated farming starts above the Persian Gulf. Ur and Karnak. Archeology and climate history are not beliefs.

The main motief at Catal Huyuk is vultures. The same is found at Veracocha's city on Lake Titicaca. Also mud brick houses, irrigated farming, also dating to before the end of the last ice age. The vulture comes into Egypt from the west 15,500 years ago.

Stories from the time say Veracocha had red hair and green or blue eyes. Corn, potatoes, Lima Beans, were developed.

The Gods, always seem a triade, with their sister wife, and daughter wife.

One of the reasons why such high places were settled, The Lesser Dryas Period when the ice was subliming more than melting, set loose a lot of rock flour, which the wind picked up, leading to a 1,500 year world wide dust storm. Being high up put them above the dust. Irrigated farming around glacier fed lakes worked.

While most died, the gods lived well. While not true immortals, the gods lived very long lives.

They did breed another line, the Sons of God. or Children of god, that did not live as long, and were expected to do all the chores. They rebeled.

This is what lead to the creation of man, to labor in the fields of the gods.

Modern humans, identical to us, first appear 125,000 years ago.

According to genetics, that was the first cross with neanderthal, with whom we shared a common ancestor, hundreds of thousands of years before. It would have made for a stronger breed, suited to field work.

A second cross happened 80,000 years ago. We have few remains of humans during those times.

They did not have cultural goods.

The first humans we have some good records on are from 38,000 years ago.

They were the ancestors of Europe. They were less than a hundred, and so line bred that they were genetically almost identical twins, much closer than brother sister, the whole population was of a single line going back thousands of years.

For a third and last time the male line was replaced by neanderthal.

For the next 20,000 years they lived near neanderthal, but there is no evidence of breeding.

15,500 years ago the gods return, and there is some mystery DNA.

From bare survival they are suddenly building cities with vast irrigated fields.

After the drying that forms the Sahara, they move south, start irrigated river farming, and domesticate a new group of paleolithic humans. There is evidence that this system ran for thousands of years.

There is still a small group of gods, a larger group the children of the gods, and a much larger group, the Black Haired People. The Sons of god, the lowest tier of gods, who worked the slave pens, breed with the daughters of man, and produce a half breed group.

There are still gods above the wall of heaven.

Evidence of history takes a time machine. The best we can come up with is a story that fits the recorded facts.

I have not heard of anyone living for hundreds of years and being much smarter, but if they existed, they would cover their tracks. Even in the old stories, the gods lived in protected seclusion.

I look forward to some unexplained DNA leading to some non human, non neanderthal, source. We are just starting to build a map of our DNA. We have a lot more to learn.

These are still simple words pasted on a forum, now the forum itself and the ability to paste on it has some astounding discoveries and inventions that have brought it to life all of which are verifiable. Your story in the form of Roman characters viewable on my monitor however, still remains a story, nothing verified, nothing tested, nothing submitted as evidence. They represent yet another unfalsifiable account of what exactly? One thing they do represent is the reason why we need to stick firm to the rigours of the scientific method lest we descend once again into the belief that musings have their own veracity in reality.

My own issues with the "Ancient Alien" Theories, other than the fact that it is the best sitcom on T.V at the moment of course..

1. It does a huge disservice to the artisans of ancient humanity, they could achieve way beyond what we can now. There are still some with these skills that achieve excellence close to perfection maybe even (obsession) in a specific craft or discipline. (sound familiar to anyone on this forum?)

2. Annunaki - "We have flown across the galaxy to come to this Earth, costing energy you cannot fathom. We must have used materials that don't even exist on this planet. But please buiuld us some stone temples and gather some gold for us." Oh you are just monkeys, let us fix that, get some gold and piss off again. (We will pop back and give hints about secret technology and knowledge through secretive people over the years, because despite all our power, we are shy and introverted and even though we changed your whole species we would rather not come and say hi or check up on you.)

( "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, so far as possible, assign the same causes." - I. Newton)

3. What is more likely?

A. That human life has gone through multiple moments of destruction over the years where numbers were reduced to critical levels Toba Catastrophe. During these periods (Sometimes down to just thousands in numbers in isolated pockets) much was forgotten lost, became legend etc.. and diversity faltered due to the large reduction in the size of the gene pool. A lot can be forgotten in just two generations, especially if everything must start again and those with the knowledge perished. (look at Britain after Rome left technology was there but a lot was used but repairs were ignored and not things were not maintained until it was in ruins and forgotten.)

Or

B. Aliens came and put evolution on a fast track using amazing technology to help monkeys chat to mine gold better so they could fly home, and also build huge stone temples?

As for the so called humand DNA mystery related to this (Annunaki DNA) again is it not more likely that we are more than an standard evolutionary mutation but that one of these events also change a small group of primates genetically possibly through radiation (Meteor, Volcano etc...?) causing a sort of "insanity" that could be called self awareness that diverged into a sort of intelligence? (again these events would have had to have been spread over multiple periods of human development. Rise to a large population with technology and language, get decimated then start from a smaller number again. This reduces gene pool, restricted gene pool encourages genetic repetition and mutation so the cycle accelerates. As the numbers now rise those traits are dominant until the bio-filter situation occurs again.

As much as I have gone into detail on this it's not exactly a core belief just a counter to the ancient alien theory, it's seems to be adding unnecessary complexity to a relatively simple solution of proven periods of low human population.

I actually love the theory, it would be awesome. Everyone would be right in the end, there is a God who made us but just not what others thought, old big hair would be made king of the world and be able to make a History Chanel Special where he just sits there laughing and pointing for 24 hours and makes his haircut mandatory for men and women.

But I won't knock the people into it, As a kid it was these stories and books (Stitchin, von Daniken etc) that opened my eyes to a reality outside of the Catholic indoctrination I was going through and helped me step out of it to look into what I wanted to find out.

If you read, watch and listen, a lot of those involved seem to be relying on a lot of "FAITH" in order to make it work for them.

And just to add...

I've been to Nazca, flew over the lines and visited the elongated skulls, seen the buildings and structures they talk about and things are not what you may see on the (lack of) History channel or in those books. Go there and see them for yourself, nothing alien about them especially if you have been to Africa and seen any other tribes that have body deformation traditions.

Please look more into ancient trepanation rituals and the culture of body deformation in ancient tribes.

Neck elongation, skull deformation, Lotus feet, Corsets even Hair styles to some degree if you think about it. The ruling class has always needed to distinguish itself from the peasants, this then becomes fashion for the bourgeois which then trickles to the common people. This removes the mystique and new fashion must be found, although in some cultures these deformities would have been protected by those that knew how to achieve them to create the belief of "physical difference" chosen by a higher power or related to one. This can justify ruling by blood line as they are not like the rest of the people.

As with most belief systems my main issue is that people here a quote or a theory and integrate it verbatim into their framework without actually trying to verify or research anything themselves or even trying to find flaws in anything they may have heard or seen. Without questions we are just followers of anything.

Languages appearing out of nowhere - same as languages being lost, still happening now. An ancient language appearing out of nowhere is how they appear. Due to materials deteriorating over the years until something survives maybe many years and evolutions later and is discovered "fully formed". I mainly struggle to find the mysteries that are mentioned, many seem solved to me.

There is a lot of valid and qualified research of tribal body modification used over the years in various countries and yes there is some overlap with these traditions as with pyramids, but I don't put that anywhere near outside the realm of both coincidence and logical thinking. To me it makes sense that a pyramid would be one of the first large structures to be built once maths and architecture become part of the peoples skill set but only if you have the person in your culture that can think of it or listens to the one who does.

Thanks for the Annunaki DNA article. We do have non evolution genes, and bacteria are used to transfer genes from one lifeform to another. We are apes, but have a neurological upgrade.

This would call for a very complicated accident, or some simple genetic additions. How simple? We are doing it, and we are apes!

Designer glow in the dark children are the next big thing.

While we have twice the genetic material of a fruit fly, we do not use a lot of it.

Adding neurological traits will not kick in until the other parts become available.

It is said of most inventions, the generation that produces them does not understand the use, but the next generation does.

Our programing runs ahead of our production.

These several hundred genes that are not from the tree of evolution, are not from that tree to bacteria.

A few years ago was "Everyone is the same!" Now we know better, some have neanderthal DNA, some do not, and the spread of these several hundred genes has not yet been mapped.

The African Eve is still the mother of all out of Africa. The first genetically modified ape.

Male neanderthal DNA seems to have been used, three times, but never in the wild.

Modifying neanderthal DNA, such as in sperm, with bacteria that carry other genetic material, then insert into the African Eve, and create a new line.

It took some work before the sons of god looked upon the daughters of man, and did genetic modification in the old way.

Besides the genes that are not found in other than bacteria, I wonder if we have some that are found in other species. Humans do have pig traits, and no ape has hams like a human.

The first humans well studied, the ancestors of Europe, show they were line bred for perhaps thousands of generations, just as we do with domestic animals.

We are genetically close to mice, and no ape comes into heat once a month, but mice do.

Genetics has reached a point where we could do the same, and have it glow in the dark.

The evidence for genetic modification is large, and the view that evolution lead us from the old stone age to the present in 35,000 years is doubful.

^^^
I believe bonobos - like humans - are horny and copulate all the time.

That neurological upgrade is a lot more simple than you seem to think, so simple in fact that it would only take 1 or 2 random point mutuations. The only neurologically relevant genes that separate us from chimpanzees control nothing but the number of rounds of cell division during fetal brain development. This means that our brains are not more complex or advanced than chimp brains; the cortical neurons of a human fetus merely divide 2 or 3 more times than those of a chimp fetus. Other than that, our nervous systems are almost identical.

Differently put, we simply have more neurological quantity, not higher quality or a more complex "brain design". One random mutation causing a few more rounds of brain cell division. That's it. That makes the entire difference between the brains of Koko the chimp and Mozart the human. Is it really so hard to believe that such an utterly simple random accident could occur?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzDLkPFjev4[/youtube]

Yes, I do find it hard to believe.

We parted company with the chimps five million years ago.

There is nothing in the record with a larger brain.

Autism also shows a slight over growth of brain, and big heads.

Nothing like that in the primate record.

We do know through genetics we parted company with neanderthal in Africa, 600,000 years ago.

No skulls have been found from the period, but much later they had 1600cc brains.

Early modern humans had 1100cc. They were the largest brains in Africa.

We have no record of early modern humans before 125,000 years ago.

At that time they bred with neanderthals. Neanderthals had about twice the brain of any other species of hominid.

Neanderthals might have been the first genetic project. They did have their limits, as their tool types do not change over time, and they never caught on to the thrown spear. Erectus also seems hardwired. All of the record before then shows unchanging tools design, over a million years.

Sapiens do show a constant change in tool design. First and only species with an adaptive technology.

The slight overgrowth of brains in Autism causes problems, a doubling would be a disaster.

What would fit the facts is neanderthal bred with an 750cc hominid, producing modern humans, much as the later cross, 38,000 years ago produced large brained Cro Magnons.

The changes that stand out are recent. The skulls of Africa going way back show small brained homonids.

Only humans and bacteria sharing several hundred genes seems a smoking gun. If they freely transfered, they would be found in other species.

Genetics with no history in evolution. Genes that develop neurological structures. It points to an off world source.

They have not made the bacteria smarter, but humans have a recent period of supercharged development.

Species with larger brains are gone, neanderthal, denisovan, Cro Magnon, so are all of the smaller brain versions, except pan, chimps and bonobos.

We are it, in rapidly growing numbers, with advancing technology.

Maybe we come back to some more later...

but for now

1. Thats solved then, what process is used in verifying a truth when the main proof is lack of evidence to the contrary? (just curious for my own studies?)

2. I said, what..... uh, what er, just to be sure what?

3. Uh hum... Just to be sure, what form of Head inflator Autism do you have? (Head Inflator Austism Spectrum?)

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qesem_Cave

5. That's right, genes can't just start doing weird stuff on their own, that could perhaps through serendipity end up being useful and be reproduced?

6. Shame there is nothing else with that sort of rapid development that we could perhaps look to for correlation, something that relates to how technological advancement leads to faster gains.