Hey Christians, how can you believe in this???

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Not true, provide me with evidence for your claims and I will consider it. If your evidence stacks up it is quite easy for me to accept your posit that christianity was almost soley responsible for a change in the morals of western civilisation, accepting this would not challenge my belief that Jesus was not the son of God. I am not obstinately defending my non belief in God I just want evidence for your claims, admittedly my gut feeling is that a search through the history of western society would not back you up, but as wise man once said "Common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down by the mind before you reach eighteen"

I may take you up on that tomorrow, but at the moment I'm stinking drunk celebrating Father's Day.

I suggest you look at game theory all of the above are explained by altruistic evolutionary biology, and exist in nature.

Well first up christians have been persecuting jews since the time of Paul, and secondly as far as I am aware the only country to give jews unfettered safe passage before and during ww2 was China, The US even refused entry to refugees at their harbours in the full knowledge that U Boats were waiting to sink them, all the western countries refused to increase their refugee limits and as a result hundreds of thousands of jews were trapped. The allies even refused to bomb the crematoria and gas chambers at auschwitz even after jewish councils begged them to do so. Look back through history and the Jews suffered at the hands of the Christians for millennia, and by the way one man killed 6 million jews all by himself? Has it occured to you that he tapped into a rich source of popular opinion and gained a lot of support because masses of people agreed with him?

How is sacrificing someone with a knife for religious reasons different than burning someone at the stake for religious reasons?
I don't think the Christians of those days were any better than the pagans. Europe has been at war since there were people there, and that hasn't changed until after WW2, when Christianity was no longer considered that important.
The Christian nobles fought each other (and muslims/pagans) for land and spoils and ransom. The Vikings knew the pagan Saxons were massacred and that Charlemagne wanted to force Christianity on people. This coincided with the start of the Viking Age. The Vikings and Franks probably considered themselves to be at war with the other, though there were Christian Vikings who were just as Viking-like. Not far from here the Franks killed Frisians and Saxons. And there were also Vikings raids. Doesn't really matter whether you get killed by a Christian or a Norse pagan.

I've been reading some of the Eddas and sagas lately. If you look at those for moral lessons, it's a mixed bag (like most religions). The gods are also of questionable morality. The main deity Odin even cheats durings a riddles game, attacks the Wanes for apparantly no reason. On the other hand there is a poem mostly about moral rules: hospitality, honesty, against greed etc. One good thing: the Norse mythology helped inspire Tolkien. One poem has the names of most of the dwarves and Gandalf, the way Odin cheats at the riddle game is much the same as Bilbo does in The Hobbit.

But I don't reason with the assumption that there is a God, or the so called top down approach. I get the feeling that you are categorizing me and other Christians into a stereotype. Just because someone believes in God does not mean that they reason upon the primary assumption to suit a philosophy. Correct me if I am wrong, but your logic appears t be contradicting itself. At first you say that morals are an adaptive evolutionary trait and are thus ingrained , then you say that these traits are not fixed and change at random according to a culture and thus are not fixed and may change or be discarded rapidly? Aha, so your previous comment means that you will continue to push past the unknown until the unknown no longer exists. Well, I would say that it is not essential to explain the unknown in order to find reason or philosophy, but if it brings you peace, then that is all that matters.

Christians at the time of Paul were hardly in any position to persecute anyone, as they were a tiny, often illegal minority. In fact, it was Judaism's priests who had originally been doing the persecution - just think of how Stephen was stoned to death by an angry mob of Pharisees.

In all fairness, the Frankish-Saxon war was hardly so one sided. The Saxons and Frisians had been making raids into Frankish territory for some time prior to Charlemagne. The reason why the Frankish emperor had decided to conquer Saxony and enforce Christianity on the populace was because they were tired of having their people terrorized by pagans who worshiped the same war and storm gods they used to. Of course, Charlemagne had gone to extremes and there had been needless loss of life. But the raids that had brought the Frankish conquest about had also caused needless destruction and loss of life.
As for the Viking raids as a reaction to Charlemagne's invasion - very probably in part, as Saxons who had fled to Denmark were known to have returned to raid and burn Frankish churches along with native Danish warriors, meaning that Saxons were among the first Viking raiders. But as the first known Viking raids were attacks on churches in England, it shows that the Frankish-Saxon war was hardly responsible for all Viking outrages.
And I absolutely agree, Northern mythology is invaluable for it's literary influence on Tolkien and others. I absolutely agree, the religion of my German and Swedish ancestors was damn cool. But I have no illusions about the blood soaked reality surrounding it.

Have you listened to some of Hitler's speeches? He was very good at manipulating people, if I can find one of the speeches I am talking about I will post it here for you, it sounded very good, he was talking about family values, and things like that, it sounded nothing like what he ultimately did, and there as nothing in it that could have lead people to believe he would do the things he did, including a genocide. And when people did realise what was happening, it was too late, i.e. they were already at the point where people had to be very courageous and risk their life to try to stop him.

I do agree with you that the U.S. should have welcomed the refugees tho, and some people did try to pass laws to allow this. But despite this terrible mistake, many Jewish people still made it to America (and at the time there was also already many Jews who already lived, and/or were born, in America).

Either way tho, what is the point of attacking Christians specifically? Through history most religions (i.e. the people who practiced these religions) have been either persecuted or persecuted others. How about looking at what is happening in the present instead, at all the crimes committed in the name of religion right now?

In some Muslim countries if a Christian dares speak about his/her religion he will go to prison, Christians get persecuted, sometimes even murdered, their houses and churches get attacked, etc, simply because they are Christians, while on the other hand right now in America there is millions of people who practice many different religions, or are atheist, and everyone has the same human rights, while it is not the case in many Muslim countries.

The fact is that many women (and men too) get murdered, stoned, victims of so-called honour killings, forced to wear burkas, hijabs, etc, and are considered 2nd grade citizens in many Muslim countries. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that all Muslims are bad, as I mentioned one of my best friends is a Muslim, and there is many Muslims who are great people and don't approve violence (for example, I remember a few years ago, extremist Muslims - I think it was in Egypt but I'm not sure, I can't remember exactly - were threatening Christians and a big crowd of Muslim people went to the Christian church and stayed around the church and risked their lives to protect the Christians against the extremists).

But there is way too many of the cases I mentioned. Look at the video of Du'a Khalil Aswad, 17 years old Iraqi girl, with all these men murdering her, while others are taking videos with their phones, the police is standing by, and no one is helping her. I was on Twitter for over a year and I was posting information about a different case of so-called honor killing, and stoning, every single day! There is so many of them it is unbearable. The only thing that gives me hope for these women (and the men as well) is that there is good people in these countries who are trying to change this mentality, and in some cases the men who committed these murders do get convicted and go to prison.

That is not a fair statement about the German people. German Jews fought along side Christian Germans in WW1 and the marriage rate between the two religions was around 72% in 1932. You are not taking into effect the Weimar Republic and the long depression Germany Suffered between the world wars. The German people were desperate for prosperity and latched on to National Socialism as a way out. Don't forget the nazis also exterminated Christians in their concentration camps. National Socialism is a blight upon human history.

He should listen to some of his speeches, there was nothing that could have led people to believe he was a bad man, he was talking about families values and other good things, nothing immoral, most German people had no idea about how bad his real intentions were, and some of them risked their life to help Jewish people hide from Nazis. Hitler was a master of manipulation.

I could not agree with you more, but it is also true that those who supported hitler (43% of the population voted for him) knew of his fascist stance, they knew of his hatred of the jews and were prepared to have them as scapegoats for the hardships they were suffering. So I find it very disingenuous to blame this particular pogram against european Jewry (therehave been quite a few others) as the result of the mad ravings of a single man, yes he was a great orator, yes he promised to lift Germany out of the shame and destitution forced upon its citizens by war reparations. But I do not accept the often posited idea that the german population had little or no blame for the atrocities carried out in their name.

Hmmm let me think whats the book called MEIN KAMPF

I cannot place blame for the Holocaust on the shoulders of the German people. Yes, they did vote for him and yes it was known that Hitler was antisemitic, but most Germans did not think he would kill them. It was never branded that way to the German people. Heck, some Jews fought for the nazis. Instead, they were told elaborate lies that Jews were simply being relocated to excellent camps where there was entertainment and housing. In addition the German people were living under a police state where neighbors would inform on neighbors and the Gestapo could show up at any hour for small infractions. However, some Germans did resist and sheltered Jews forged documents, and engaged in espionage. Everything changed after the burning of the Reichstag. Hitler was given supreme power and those who protested were killed. In many ways the German people did more than people in other countries who did not want a massive immigration of Jews and sent them back to Germany. I think the ending of the movie Trial At Nuremberg summed it up best, "If the German people are guilty, then the world is guilty also."

Here is a few surprising fact of one of the monsters responsible.
Himmler: Chicken farmer before the war, fainted at the sight of blood, and was only present for one mass execution. Records show that at that execution Himmler showed extreme anxiety and was running around saying, "kill them quickly!" at which point a drop of blood landed in his shoe causing him to faint and remained unconscious as he was carried away.

Sorry I haven't read Mein Kampf, and I doubt every German had read this before voting for him. I was talking about his speeches, and the ones I have heard had nothing in them that could lead a person to believe he was such a bad person.

Not comparing Obama with Hitler here but, have you read any of his books before voting (for him or others)?

A must read on this topic:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/067977268 ... SY200_QL40

Ordinary people, farmers, clerks, didn't have to be coerced into joining the killing squads. They volunteered to lead Jewish children into the woods and murder them. Those who got squeamish about this work were assigned other duties; no ill befell them.

Not the last word on the subject. But an eye-opening book.