Why does the left feel the need to attack others all the tim

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Lazar_Kaganovich
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11 Apr 2015, 5:12 pm

sly279 wrote:

again wasn't taking about that I was talking about what atleast ann wanted which is a law where they come and take the kids to vaccinate them. how many times do I have to say this.

my cousins were in the way. they didn't believe in vaccines., but guess what they didn't believe any any federal or state thing, which included would you guess what????? public school system. so most who don't' believe in vaccines won't go to public schools anyways. so unless disneyland starts checking vaccine records how is this going solve what happen there.



Because failure to vaccinate children is detrimental to the child's health as well as the health of other children. Since you're an Autist, you should realize that there is not a shred of scientific proof that vaccinations cause Autism. And the fear of Autism is PRECISELY why some stupid parents refuse to vaccinate their kids! At a certain point, there have to be limits on what people can do when their actions have a negative impact on other people.

It's irrational to allow parents to get away with not vaccinating their kids just because they "don't wanna".

If you have a problem with this, move to Somalia, Waziristan, or the Central African Republic. You could also try Colombia or Mexico.



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11 Apr 2015, 6:13 pm

I agree with AspleUttah. Ya'll let msm create your perceptions, your identity, then spend your valuable time engaged in a conflict between polarised semantic bubbles.



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11 Apr 2015, 6:41 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you don't like something, go vote. Did you know the last election, voter turnout was dismal? Exercise your right to vote.
If you don't vote, you don't have a voice and the ones who voice themselves through their vote will influence the election in a biased way.



I do vote and it doesn't matter. if you vote red ina blue state your vote means s**t. vote blue in a red state and your vote means s**t. only if you vote blue in blue and red in red does your vote do anything, except of course in ohio.



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11 Apr 2015, 6:41 pm

beneficii wrote:
sly279 wrote:
again wasn't taking about that I was talking about what atleast ann wanted which is a law where they come and take the kids to vaccinate them. how many times do I have to say this.

my cousins were in the way. they didn't believe in vaccines., but guess what they didn't believe any any federal or state thing, which included would you guess what????? public school system. so most who don't' believe in vaccines won't go to public schools anyways. so unless disneyland starts checking vaccine records how is this going solve what happen there.


Who's Ann?

What went wrong in California was that personal belief exemptions became so easy to get and in certain parts of California vaccination rates actually dropped down to about 80%. That is low enough to where so-called herd immunity is affected. Otherwise, vaccination rates would have likewise been normal, making it difficult for diseases to spread because mass vaccination is good at shutting down possible disease vectors, severely limiting the disease when and if it does occur.


Ana thought it was with two n's



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11 Apr 2015, 6:43 pm

sly279 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you don't like something, go vote. Did you know the last election, voter turnout was dismal? Exercise your right to vote.
If you don't vote, you don't have a voice and the ones who voice themselves through their vote will influence the election in a biased way.



I do vote and it doesn't matter. if you vote red ina blue state your vote means s**t. vote blue in a red state and your vote means s**t. only if you vote blue in blue and red in red does your vote do anything, except of course in ohio.

There's low voter turnout in red states. The reds come out and vote and others do not, so it looks like the majority in red states are red when it might not be the case. That's why people have to voice themselves by their vote, not just by complaining about what they don't like. If all who vote are Republicans, there will be a bias.



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11 Apr 2015, 7:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Have you considered that my views might have morphed over time? Dox doesn't seem to think so. Also, I'm much more opposed to the gun fetishist types who think that their gun rights supersede the rights and sensibilities of everyone else. The gun activists I have a problem with are those who could care less about the feelings of the victims of gun violence, or who make insane charges about government false flag operations whenever there's a mass shooting. Plus, the fact that is, if the NRA and GOA ever sided at least once in a while with liberals on social issues, they might actually garner some Democratic support.
As far as the country having a black President is concerned - sure, that's proof of amazing change in our country. But that hardly means that blacks have the same opportunities as whites. Plus, to say that the rabid Anti-Obama rhetoric out there isn't worse than what any other President had ever faced, or that there isn't any racial prejudice behind it, is highly disingenuous.
As for your cousin getting arrested - sure, whites get arrested on drug charges, but not to the extent of blacks - and blacks are a minority that is over represented in prisons. Either blacks are more criminally inclined - which I do not believe - or the justice system is stacked against them.
But really, if you want to know me, get to know me. PM me, and I'll gladly respond. Just please, don't rely on the opinions of others who rub me the wrong way. I do admit, I sometimes have taken the extreme view out of anger, but when hadn't the likes of Raptor done that?



the thing is that my owning a gun and others owning a gun don't really effect others rights and sensibilities. them being afraid of a gun doesn't' mean guns are hurting their rights. the bill of rights does not grant us the right to be free of fear. until which time a person is pointing a loaded gun out you they have not violated or hurt your right or freedom. the guy across the street open carrying or the guy in the store/restaurant open carrying dont' hurt anyone.

hardly see those people but I do see the antis using the bodies of dead victims minutes after the shooting to try to get what they want. they even try to use the bodies of victims that support gun rights despite being told not to. what did the NRA do they go silent in respect of the victims. meanwhile the left posts their pictures all over the place, the anties love standing on the bodies of victims to try to pass their agenda. why doesn't that disgust you? makes me so utterly disgusted that anyone would use the bodies of victims non the less children for political purpose.

the NRA isn't a social issues group besides gun rights same with GOA. I would not expect say a LGBT movement to take a stand on gun rights. I expect like they do to remain silent their issue is gay rights not guns. you expect the gun rights movement groups to slit their own throats trying to appease their enemies while losing support from the right that helps them more. the left and democrats have a party stance of being anti gun. theres a few dems who go against this. but trying to gain support in the dem party is suicide for gun groups. it just wont' ever happen. this is why theres multiple groups for different issues.

I dislike obama cause he's a horrible president. possibly our worse. I disagree with 90% of his agenda and actions he's taken. 48% or more don't like him cause of his actions, not race. sure there might be 5% who just up and dislike him cause hes black. but there's also probably 5% who dislike bush cause he was white. if obama was a white republican and did some of the stuff he did the left would be screaming. but hes a democrat so its ok. I can't wait to hear their yells when the next republican comes in. I'll likely be pissed still if regardless as each president takes what the last one did and expands on it. the president's gain more and more and more illegal powers til one day they'll just say welp no more congress or supreme court. apparently obama has pretty much already decided congress doesn't exist because they disagree with him.

he should be like welp this is how the law works we tried our best and it just won't happen under me. instead hes like f**k congress I'll just illegally bypass them. he could probably declare himself king. congress won't dear impeach the first black president could you imagine the race baiters screaming if that happen. any impeachment no matter how legit would just been seen as a racism issue. I think he's divided this nation way more then it was before. maybe this wasn't his goal but its the result.

I think blacks in prison is a result of A. they are in poor areas, they grow up there, places falling a part where the only way to make it is in gangs, stealing and committing crimes. their parents did it they do it. its a horrible repeating act. the gangs want it to continue. this also effects white to. but blacks to a higher point I imagine definitely in the south live in poorer crapper areas. many don't seem to see a hope in changing it those who try get attacked by the gangs. they're told to not trust the police and for some its a legit reason.

B. clearly there are police departments that are corrupt and racist. there's a huge problem growing in this nation of police acting like military in a occupied nation. the left solution is to transform small corrupt police into a giant corrupt police with no oversight. that won't work. we need to stop giving them military equipment. they need to go back to dress blues uniforms to walk beat not tactical military uniforms with M4s on their chest. they do freaking traffic stops like that here on the highway. cause you know theres a full bank robbery crew with full auto ak47s in every soccor moms mini van. no its cause if you get free cool stuff. they're going want to use it. and use it often to make sense of having it and the cost of some of it. other part is well get more black people in the police force. but then if they do others in their area will spit on them and hate them. I don't know what to do if both sides are stuck in their ways and neither will try to change. but one thing we can do is end the military gear program maybe pass laws to limit types of weapons they have.

they went from packing sidearms to having rifles in the trunks or place of shotguns(i see the point of this especially in la) to packing the rifles on almost all officers and patrolling cities like they are in baghdad

threads not about racism or corrupt cops though. left doesn't seem to even be interested in really addressing those issues. just complain about them then try to ban two liter sized soda.



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11 Apr 2015, 7:15 pm

Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
sly279 wrote:

again wasn't taking about that I was talking about what atleast ann wanted which is a law where they come and take the kids to vaccinate them. how many times do I have to say this.

my cousins were in the way. they didn't believe in vaccines., but guess what they didn't believe any any federal or state thing, which included would you guess what????? public school system. so most who don't' believe in vaccines won't go to public schools anyways. so unless disneyland starts checking vaccine records how is this going solve what happen there.



Because failure to vaccinate children is detrimental to the child's health as well as the health of other children. Since you're an Autist, you should realize that there is not a shred of scientific proof that vaccinations cause Autism. And the fear of Autism is PRECISELY why some stupid parents refuse to vaccinate their kids! At a certain point, there have to be limits on what people can do when their actions have a negative impact on other people.

It's irrational to allow parents to get away with not vaccinating their kids just because they "don't wanna".

If you have a problem with this, move to Somalia, Waziristan, or the Central African Republic. You could also try Colombia or Mexico.


you know i've only heard the vaccines cause autism here on this site. o.O
I am in prepper groups though and reason they fear some vaccines is the how untrustworthy the gov is and the huge list of side effects. kids die from vaccines too. you know. scares the s**t out of some people. It took me a year to finally decide to go get the hpv vaccine. quite a few girls died or got paralyzed from it. others got hpv from the vaccine.

why don't you move there instead and stop messing up the good old usa

mean its been like this for a while and we have very very very few outbreaks of anything and usually its cause its brought in from outside the nation.

its funny the left wants to mandate kids get vaccines yet you let mexican children come in with all the diseases and mingle with the population without vaccines.

care to anyone to explain to me how thats good idea. and how this would have prevent what happen at disneyland? cause if its what you say it wouldn't stop a homeschooled kid going their.



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11 Apr 2015, 7:23 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Wow! I go to sleep last night thinking that this topic is about "the left" and other political parties who hope to score points by attacking others and ignoring their own laws and rules against doing so.

This morning, I wake up to a cluster-conflation (mash-up) of anti-vaccine klansmen and other Democrats (yes, the KKK found a home within the southern Democratic Party of the mid-1800s), racism (if I oppose the "knock-out game" and shooting blacks in the back, am I racist or do they cancel each other?), homophobia and feminine characteristics (I, too, rebuilt my car engine, own guns, wear a beard and have many other non-gay characteristics, but whatever), Christian bakers and photographers (some of whom have apparently lost so much business from their 15 minutes of fame that they are now bankrupt), and marriage (birth and marriage certificates were popularized by the Jim Crow laws of the Reconstructionist South). Yikes!

It is almost as if they designed our national dialogue to whip up emotions in exactly these ways; why comply with such forced nonsense? Live your life and call it good. Besides, what are we being distracted from in the meantime?

Another day at Wrong Planet....

Meanwhile, I am off to the Communicating Success on the Autism Spectrum workshop at the University of Utah ( http://www.perfectfifthproject.org/ ) where I hope we learn new things to help ourselves and others. See y'all this afternoon! :wink:


lot of the left's stuff does seem intended to divide us as a nation more and more. perhaps they want some kind of civil war because then they can get marshal law and get everything they want. now not saying as masses they'd want that. but perhaps some of the higher ups do. mean any kind of civil uprising that they beat will lead to more power for the government.

really seems pointless as I and them won't agree and they are unwilling to consider my views.
I made this cause I was having a meltdown. I suppose I don't have them like I use to where I stop talking and rock. now I break down, freak out, panic, get super afraid and depressed.

I do think we need two nations. one left and one right. and then a 3rd one for the rest of us. so lets say california is fore democrats. texas is for republicans and then the other 80% of us can live in the rest of the nation. :lol:



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11 Apr 2015, 7:23 pm

Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
The belief that people are basically good and have a "natural right" to unrestricted freedom is a very LIBERAL belief.

Indeed it is, or was. Could it simply be that they lost faith in humanity somewhere along the road?



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11 Apr 2015, 7:28 pm

sly279 wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Wow! I go to sleep last night thinking that this topic is about "the left" and other political parties who hope to score points by attacking others and ignoring their own laws and rules against doing so.

This morning, I wake up to a cluster-conflation (mash-up) of anti-vaccine klansmen and other Democrats (yes, the KKK found a home within the southern Democratic Party of the mid-1800s), racism (if I oppose the "knock-out game" and shooting blacks in the back, am I racist or do they cancel each other?), homophobia and feminine characteristics (I, too, rebuilt my car engine, own guns, wear a beard and have many other non-gay characteristics, but whatever), Christian bakers and photographers (some of whom have apparently lost so much business from their 15 minutes of fame that they are now bankrupt), and marriage (birth and marriage certificates were popularized by the Jim Crow laws of the Reconstructionist South). Yikes!

It is almost as if they designed our national dialogue to whip up emotions in exactly these ways; why comply with such forced nonsense? Live your life and call it good. Besides, what are we being distracted from in the meantime?

Another day at Wrong Planet....

Meanwhile, I am off to the Communicating Success on the Autism Spectrum workshop at the University of Utah ( http://www.perfectfifthproject.org/ ) where I hope we learn new things to help ourselves and others. See y'all this afternoon! :wink:

lot of the left's stuff does seem intended to divide us as a nation more and more. perhaps they want some kind of civil war because then they can get marshal law and get everything they want. now not saying as masses they'd want that. but perhaps some of the higher ups do. mean any kind of civil uprising that they beat will lead to more power for the government.

really seems pointless as I and them won't agree and they are unwilling to consider my views.
I made this cause I was having a meltdown. I suppose I don't have them like I use to where I stop talking and rock. now I break down, freak out, panic, get super afraid and depressed.

I do think we need two nations. one left and one right. and then a 3rd one for the rest of us. so lets say california is fore democrats. texas is for republicans and then the other 80% of us can live in the rest of the nation. :lol:

Hehe. :D


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11 Apr 2015, 7:40 pm

sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccinations were created for a reason:

to prevent SERIOUS DISEASES.

If we don't vaccinate, we'll be back to square one. Kids would get polio again, as well as all those other lovely diseases like diphtheria.

Talk to someone who lived in the era before polio vaccination. You'll change your tune right fast!

people should not be FORCED to take them though that is what I disagree with. I get vaccines, I will fight to the death against forcing people to get them. just as I would for gay rights.

not everyone does it now and theres no polio. so this is just a emotional reaction trying to pass a law. laws should never be based on emotional overreactions.


I hate to be the one to tell you, POLIO HAS NOT BEEN ERADICATED!
Polio has reentered Syria, Iraq, Lebanon (via refugees) and other middle east countries.
Polio still exists in Nigeria and other parts of Africa due to communities refusing to take the vaccine claiming it is part of leftist propaganda and European imperialism.

Polio also reentered Brazil last year, the first time it has been reported in South America since the 1970s.

Lastly there aren't any leftist in the U.S. political system, the cold war killed the left.

Right now the U.S. political system is like this:

Republicans (Ultra right [ they moved to that position after Obama was elected]) ---- Democrats (Centrist) ---- Independents/3rd parties (socialist/communist)

The Democrats and their allies haven't really attacked anyone, since the late 90s... That is the problem.
The ultra right are the ones fighting everything while the Democrats do nothing!

In Florida, the Republicans made it illegal for any public official including teachers to even mention global warming/climate change.
Any school district caught teaching it, loses all non local funding.
Any department and agency that uses any science and data that supports it, loses its funding.

Wisconsin just banned the teaching of global warming/climate change and any mention of it in the schools.
You lose funding for even mentioning it under the new rules just passed.
Walker is also set to pass a new "Right to Work" law, which essentially stops you from organizing your work place into a union if currently un-unionized, and puts an end to closed shop work places, allowing all those who refuse to join a union to get the union benefits.
This is supposed to drive down wages that are making it near impossible for business to turn a profit currently.

Here in Michigan:
The Republicans have repeatedly blocked the measures to fund our roads because of "RIGHT WING VALUES"!
There most recent attempted has forced it to a state wide emergency election on May 5th, because the Republican speaker and his caucus refused to hold the vote in the state house.
Oh lets not forget they tried to recall the current republican governor for working with Democrats and not adhering to Republican values.
Oh they also cut taxes to corporation and rich people, while raising the taxes on anyone else.

The deep south, is still refusing to do anything meaningful for there citizens.

Most states where there is a huge Republican majority in office, they are cutting taxes for the rich and corporations, while raising taxes on everyone else.
They also have passed religious freedom bills, where you can discriminate against anyone who isn't protected by federal anti-discrimination law.

At the national level the right is being down right awful to stop "OBAMA"!
They killed proposal that would make a balance budget required by federal law (The right proposed this) because Obama agreed to sign it.
They know claim Obama refusing to balance the budget, despite constantly blocking said budgets.

They are refusing to even vote on immigration reform in the House, the senate passed by near unanimous vote 4 years ago. The GOP claims the democrats won't work with them on immigration reform.

They claim the Democrats and Obama are at fault for nothing getting done since 2008, even though they are purposely refusing to bring it all to a vote because they want to win a super majority in congress and make the other side look bad.

They are now promising to fully shutdown and default the federal government come September when the current funding runs out, in order to force Obama's hands.
They are promising to continue this even if it means forcing a huge double dip recession, because Obama and the Democrats!!


Let's not forget how Women, Gays, Minorities, Disabled are bleeding the states and federal government dry, while refusing to do enough work to live on.
Oh these people are also not practicing traditional values, while they are hell bent on destroying the nation, marriage and capitalism!!

I hear this often from the Right leaning people I know.

Oh lets not forget how those damn teachers are bleeding the tax payers dry with huge salaries, benefits and pensions while only working 9 months out of the year and less than 40 hours a week.
Those damn teachers are too busy teaching to the test just as Obama told them too (it was actually Bush that implemented national standardized texting).
They also aren't teaching American values...

Let's not talk about their IVORY TOWERS AND BMWs they all own, while the normal american worker is struggling to get by and people like Bill Gates are hurting for money...!

Yeah I hear this all the time.

Did I forget to mention those damn WELFARE QUEENS?


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11 Apr 2015, 7:56 pm

I also should add if you have 48% of the public backing you when you leave office, then you are very lucky president.

There are a list of presidents who have had 48%+ when they left office at the natural ending point:

*George Washington
*Thomas Jefferson
*James Madison
*Andrew Jackson (1830s)
*Theodore Roosevelt
*Dwight Eisenhower
*Bill Clinton
*Obama (provided no double dip recession or government default before he leaves office)

Presidents who might have had 48%+ approval rating, if they survived

*Abraham Lincoln (His popularity was growing by the time of his death, though he still had sub 30% approval rating when he died)
*FDR (He was still very popular when he died)
*JFK (He was equally as popular when he died)

Americans typically hate every president as they are leaving office, outside of the few listed.

As the saying goes... You die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.


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11 Apr 2015, 9:04 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I just don't like cherrypicking. Either let us be totally free or accept we all gotta make some sacrifices but don't tell me I gotta wear a seat belt and not tell a parent to vaccinate their child.


So it is only you who is affected by you smacking your brain to bits in a crash? the other people in this scenario have no input? As for vaccination how dare any person refuse vaccination for their child, it is not their right to put the kid at such risk. What are you going to suggest next don't tell me I cannot beat the crap out of my child, or have sexual relations with them.

MOst humans do not bother looking into subjects further than their own selfish interests, or in the case of vaccinations allow subjective nonsense and thought bubbles to sway their decision.

You cannot beat the crap out of your child or have sexual relationship with them and if you need a law to tell you that is not right then I don't know what to say. I know that isn't right so I don't need a law. I have respect for other people and having respect for them means you do not cross their boundaries or inflict violence upon them. It is part of my Gnostic religion, to respect all people.


No I think it is perfectly ok for me to have sexual relations with my child and beat them if they refuse, I do not need a law telling me not to do it as I see that it is an acceptable and ethical behavior. Everyone should respect my wishes.

As this is an ASD forum I feel it necessary to explain that the above is not what I believe but an example of how ana's argument can be used.

ANA in the same way that it would appear amoral to have sexual relations with your own child, I and many, many others feel it is also amoral to put your child at risk from a variety of horrific illnesses, which, if contracted, would do far more damage to the child than sexual assault followed by a beating. In the same way that laws are needed to prevent people from raping their children (as they have no problem with doing this) the same goes for a refusal to vaccinate, and a myriad of other behaviors seen as detrimental to society in general.


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11 Apr 2015, 9:21 pm

eric76 wrote:

My personal opinion is that marriage is a religious issue and the government should not interfere. I am aghast at those on the religious right who want to turn over control of religious issues to the state.



Touche, this should also get you an F.

Marriage was not considered a religious ceremony until the 12 century when the Catholics co-opted it and made it their domain, even then it was not done inside a church nor in front of a priest. From what I can tell the other Abrahamic religions do not see marriage as divine.

So to be aghast that the religious right would relinquish control over this issue is to be somewhat ignorant of the history.


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11 Apr 2015, 10:28 pm

sly279 wrote:
Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
sly279 wrote:

again wasn't taking about that I was talking about what atleast ann wanted which is a law where they come and take the kids to vaccinate them. how many times do I have to say this.

my cousins were in the way. they didn't believe in vaccines., but guess what they didn't believe any any federal or state thing, which included would you guess what????? public school system. so most who don't' believe in vaccines won't go to public schools anyways. so unless disneyland starts checking vaccine records how is this going solve what happen there.



Because failure to vaccinate children is detrimental to the child's health as well as the health of other children. Since you're an Autist, you should realize that there is not a shred of scientific proof that vaccinations cause Autism. And the fear of Autism is PRECISELY why some stupid parents refuse to vaccinate their kids! At a certain point, there have to be limits on what people can do when their actions have a negative impact on other people.

It's irrational to allow parents to get away with not vaccinating their kids just because they "don't wanna".

If you have a problem with this, move to Somalia, Waziristan, or the Central African Republic. You could also try Colombia or Mexico.


you know i've only heard the vaccines cause autism here on this site. o.O
I am in prepper groups though and reason they fear some vaccines is the how untrustworthy the gov is and the huge list of side effects. kids die from vaccines too. you know. scares the s**t out of some people. It took me a year to finally decide to go get the hpv vaccine. quite a few girls died or got paralyzed from it. others got hpv from the vaccine.

why don't you move there instead and stop messing up the good old usa

mean its been like this for a while and we have very very very few outbreaks of anything and usually its cause its brought in from outside the nation.

its funny the left wants to mandate kids get vaccines yet you let mexican children come in with all the diseases and mingle with the population without vaccines.

care to anyone to explain to me how thats good idea. and how this would have prevent what happen at disneyland? cause if its what you say it wouldn't stop a homeschooled kid going their.


Ahhh....more tinfoil hat propaganda against vaccinations. Try doing your homework. The consequences of not being vaccinated are far worse are far more likely than the side effects of being vaccinated.


Actually, I AM against illegal immigration. And I do believe it should be actively enforced. Not only to prevent terrorists and violent thugs from sneaking in to commit criminal acts, but to prevent disease infected illegal immigrants from potentially starting an epidemic. But the trouble with you is that you want laws to be selectively enforced based on what you personally want. You think you should be able to break the law whenever you see fit but Gawd forbid other people break the law by means of illegal immigration! Too bad, so sad, obey the law of the land or take the consequences.



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12 Apr 2015, 1:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Number 1: I have no problem with gun owners, despite what the "usual suspects" have to say about me. It's the lunatic fringe of the guns rights movement, which gets all the press, that I have a problem with.
Number 2: I am a Christian. I am a baptized, practicing Lutheran. I just have a problem with the Christian right, which does a definite disservice to the whole mainline Christian movement.


being as you want to ban/heavily restrict guns, you do have a problem with gun owners.
or you'd instead target the bad people rather than the object they use.

you do know many racist also said "I don't have a problem with black people, just the trouble makers"

who gets on news people defending themselves? the people doing legal and pre approved protests?
the media puts anyone near a gun on the news like its something bad in order to push their agenda that all guns and their owners are bad.

criminals while own guns don't represent the mass majority of gun owners and laws directed at legal gun owners is like killing the pigs to catch the fox.


I'm not interested in banning guns, with the exception of very, very few examples of military equipment. Again, the "usual suspects" have defamed me in the eyes of this forum.

Hmmmm.......I wonder what, by name, those few examples would be.
:chin:


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson