Always bet on the Brits -BREXIT is happening

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Did anyone else see fox news was reporting it as if we had left the UN .

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... uk-8272557

I think its foolish to think a superstate like the EU can survive on a continent of nations and peoples that span a millennia, the borders have come to reflect that mostly. The UK was never a committed member nor were they ever given a real chance on voting for the membership(just some economic partnership from 40 years ago) so I imagined that always bugged them but give the same opportunity to France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Italy, Finland, etc, and see what happens. How does it feel for the continent to be controlled by the people your grandparents died fought and died fight to prevent? Now here comes the Turks? Better to leave now before things really go south.

100% inevitable

Indeed. Yesterday, the European council made the following - unanimous statement (the last 3 points omitted for brevity):


Source: http://consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/ ... statement/

The four freedoms - of course - refer to the free movement of goods, capital, services and people.

From all the extra money we're going to make by scrapping our biggest free trade deal! You know how bad free trade is for the economy!

I don't see that 'free trade deal' with the EU happening either way especially sans UK, UK has a better chance at sneaking in on their own because of cultural ties which Trump has said as much. Maybe you Brits should start hoping Trump wins since he'll put you at the front of the line as opposed to the 'back of the que' like Barack Obama said he would. Obama by the way seems to have a real disdain for the 'special relationship' between the US and UK. Let this play out another year and see how Europe looks.

It will truly be the apocalypse if trump wins . God save us

I have a feeling that Trump will win.

The "right wind" is blowing strong in all western countries.

And my feelings are often correct.

We can only hope. If the right wind blows away the left this time, the left will never return. During the later years of the cold war, the worst of the radical left was kept in check by the ever present elephant of the Soviet Union in the room, which was at the time somewhat mysterious and closed, but there was little doubt that it was a product of leftist governance and thinking. Any steps (steps they have since taken) towards that kind of society was met with derision.

This time though, thanks to a free-ish press and the internet: the destruction, the misery, the social and cultural carnage the radicals have and continue to inflict has all been wonderfully documented in HD for all to see. If the right wins this time, every attempt by the left to inject their poison will be met with "sounds like Europe in 2015" or "are you trying to turn into America at the beginning of the 21st century?". You'd think a rational, objective look at recent history would be enough, but the old guard won't stop there, where the schools once preached egalitarianism, tolerance and promiscuity, they will preach the opposite alongside stories of traitors and heroes, the delusional and the tragically romantic, the globalists and the nationalists, the godless and the godly, the dead and the just.

Imagine that state of affairs until the end of time.

Lol. The E.U. and the U.S.A. are the two largest, wealthiest, most powerful blocks in the world RIGHT NOW....I'd think in the future, most people would want to be one of the two most powerful blocks in the world. No one ever argues they want less....oh wait, the Brexiters.

So was the Roman Empire, until it wasn't. Much of that wealth, power and standing we have was inherited by the current order, not created by it. How much of it we will retain after that order collapses is not certain.

Ok, first define this mysterious "current order"-- it's so broad I don't know if you're talking about the current rabid Brexiters that are ruining your country, the previous stable administration of Cameron, or f'in Luke Skywalker since he's obviously the leader of the current order of Jedi in Star Wars.

Edit: Also, "So was the Roman Empire, until it wasn't" is complete fabrication of history. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor did it collapse in a day-- it took over 200 years to fall, as evidenced by Diocletian's plan to "split" the empire and thus slow it's decay all the way back in 284 A.D. It was a process, not some magical thing where *poof* it was gone.

Edit 2:...and just to be smarmy: One could also make the claim that the Roman empire didn't fall until Constantinople in 1453, which would make that decline a mere *poof* 1169 years.

Which issue is the most germane, EU membership or the UK economy?

"The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK."

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

http://www.debt-clock.org/

Brexit will not spare the UK from the consequences of its debt.

UK is insolvent by any reasonable definition.

All pensions will not be paid, as one of hundreds of practical examples of said consequences. UKs economy IS bankrupt.

The only consolation is....so is USA, France, Germany, Belgium, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc......

My supplication to all those in the land that I love....is get ready for the next Global Financial Crisis(GFC).

Brexit is a side show...GFC 2.0 is the Main Event.

Are you ready?

Peace.

The socially liberally, politically stupid status quo in Western countries that thinks importing millions of migrants of vastly different and sometimes outright hostile cultures is a fantastic idea and then doesn't even try to integrate them. The same status quo that is utopian-minded, egalitarian, anti-marriage, anti-family, anti-religion, that spends much more than countries earn on social programs and welfare, a system that is so entrenched that to roll it back would destroy what's left of their economies.



I don't disagree, the point I was making is that it did decline, it did collapse and split, it did decay, despite being as powerful and rich as it was. The nature and progression of our collapse is a matter for squabbling future historians, though I suspect ours will be much quicker and much more violent.



Was it stable? They were elected in 2010, barely, on a ticket of fixing the enormous debt they inherited. All they did was increase the debt, they spent in ways that would make Bernie Sanders blush, there was no real increase in exports, the jobs they created were mainly crappy zero hour contract jobs. Our debt is enormous and unpayable, we were all but bankrupt before the vote and not much has changed. What you mean is, his administration looked stable, but no, in Lefty world it's all the fault of bigoted old Brexit voters.

Correct, as is half of Europe, as is America, and all these geniuses can think of doing is printing more Monopoly money, importing more hostile immigrants to prop up their failing economies, doubling down on their moronic social policies and cracking down on the increasingly angry "far Right" (our future overlords)



Absolutely correct, but it may be seen in years to come as a key turning point in the history of "Christendom"

I think you failed to see the point which was the EU was set to crumble due to what it is and what it is facing. It's too large, has too many member nations with vastly different economies and cultures, and it keeps running head first into the kinds of problems that tear such currency unions apart. If Britain hadn't had a Brexit eventually another of the big pillar countries would have voted to leave causing a destabilization of the EU as a whole resulting in other member nations leaving with Britain not being one of the likely hold outs to remain. Even if the people had voted remain this time there would have still been simmering resentment of the EU and its policies and all it would take is another political/economic disaster to stir up the whole hornet's nest again.

Thank you for the clarification on "current order", I was a bit standoffish when asking for clarification-- but you're British, I assume you're used to it (see we do stereotypes for outsiders over here too, lol). On that point I would say this: everything was built on something before it, even your new glorious isolated Britain is built on the former E.U. Britain which was built on the post WWII Britain (the big modern rebuilding), so on and so forth.

To be honest, leaving the E.U. isn't going to solve immigration issues, nor is Trump's wall in this country-- it may transfer them into other problems but it won't solve them. Why? Evolution. Drop fish food into a tank with schooling fish and see how quickly every single one of them darts to the center of the school for the food, if it's large school there may even be fish crushed to death trying to get to the center. For humans it's not food, it's wealth. If you have stuff, others will want it, and a good portion are willing to risk everything to get it because they have none. As population grows so does competition, and when competition grows those with stuff become the target, whether they're the alpha or not. It's inevitable that you'll have immigrants there (as we will here), just as it's inevitable the fish will rush towards the center for the food. You've basically just given up the ability to control how it happens through legal status and made it a mad dash like we have going on here.

Any idea of the cost in your country to deport all it's immigrants? Or the cost of protecting your borders from those that will inevitably try to enter it illegally? Those add up, and then there's the fact that when the immigrants were legal they were most likely paying taxes, now that they're illegal, they'll still take those jobs they just won't contribute to public coffers because hell that's about the only way they'd get caught. And yes, your businesses will protect them-- it's cheap labor and that's just capitalism, just like here. And yes, the money will win-- it always does in a democracy, hence the reason there's a mad dash for it at the middle of the "schools" of Britain and the U.S.

So you can have your Brexit, and stab yourself in the face with it's consequences-- it will not solve what is essentially human nature.