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Awesomelyglorious
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17 Nov 2016, 12:37 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
These three citations should make it obvious to you ...

"Consumption is normally the largest GDP component. "
http://www.economicswebinstitute.org/glossary/cons.htm

"Consumption is the value of goods and services bought by people"
http://www.economicswebinstitute.org/glossary/cons.htm

Consumption is largely by debt (think of big-ticket financing of homes, cars, businesses ....)
Image

GDP is a measure of debt. The more debt the nation takes on, the higher the GDP.

Ah! Ok, I think I know where the misunderstanding is coming from. I didn't think carefully on some terminology as I assumed it was being used loosely.

So, a common definition given in a macro class is that GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending(which is really just the public form of consumption or investment) + Net Exports

In that case, we can think of consumption as being a major component of GDP. However, consumption is a measure of uses of resources, not where the resources come from. GDP ALSO equals production, as these goods produced have to also be consumed, and the name alone basically means "Gross Domestic Product". It's just that everything consumed must be produced, and everything produced is basically in practice "consumed" by something as either a product or the cost of doing business.

As for the bit on debt.... um.... don't rely on the workings of a particular market to define the actual meaning of what is going on. So, not all nations have the same debt levels as the US. Also, debt still doesn't exist without income, as any time somebody loans money, they're expecting repayment out of resources you will have in the future.

But right.... it's basically what Ganondox said. I hope that clarifies.



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17 Nov 2016, 12:37 am

Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.



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17 Nov 2016, 12:48 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean 100 million dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.

Yeah... I think you're now just dealing with the conceptual issues governing how all of these definitions work.

So, if everybody sells their home to their neighbor and uses it to buy the home of their other neighbor until everybody has switched homes, GDP appears to go up, even though nothing has been gained.

At the same time, if a resale entrepreneur of some sort manages to squeeze out billions of dollars of profit from buying low and selling high, even though nothing has been created, there was the creation of some value, in that buying a used good really does benefit me and facilitating the transfer does help society. So, Half Price Books would legitimately add to GDP, as they're awesome.

Even further, if I make some amazing new indie film, the amount that GDP goes up really just entirely depends on my sales, not on any amt of labor that goes into it.

But at the same time, anything that somebody buys, they have to have sold something to cover it. So, if I buy that home, I must have either sold enough labor to buy it, or sold the value of some future earnings for it.

And of course, the problem is that trying to redefine it gets into it's own conceptual muddles. Of course, the saving grace is that the weird conceptual muddles are generally not the focus, as if we're comparing wealth vs poverty, these issues usually don't make the mass of the difference anyway, which allows my original point to stand. Unless you're arguing that the US has a GDP massively inflated through some weird trick and that other comparison countries do not have a similar issue, then the basic point I made should stand.



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17 Nov 2016, 12:54 am

Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:05 am

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.

Well to be fair Ebola has killed only two people in the USA and their is likely ways of preventing it from coming into the United States. Such as extensive Health checks etc.

As someone who has been the United States I have got to say it is quite different from being completely open in borders.



Last edited by Shahunshah on 17 Nov 2016, 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Nov 2016, 1:06 am

nurseangela wrote:
I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.

I think mostly other African nations closed borders to other African nations.

As far as I am aware, closing our borders would only be theater to make people feel better, but actually would be worse on protecting US interests: http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6964633/travel-ban-airport-screening-ebola-outbreak-virus (To summarize, historically border control doesn't work because there are too many ways around it anyway. Border control prevents people who can help from doing so, which is the best way to minimize exposure. Lastly, border control would weaken the economies of these other nations, weakening their internal aid efforts, which would also end up causing more grief as the contagion would last longer.)

Even looking aside from those reasons, ebola isn't highly contagious: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/oct/27/rand-paul/ebola-virus-incredibly-contagious-and-easy-catch-r/



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17 Nov 2016, 1:16 am

Ganondox wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But here is the deal, much of the Islamic culture is zelously adverse to our values which increases the risk of doing acts of terror in the United States. Take for instance the worst mass shooting in US history, a Muslim man shot 30 people in an Orlando nightclub in the name of Islam. When we have such devastating mass shootings taking place in the name of a religion than maybe their is something we need to be afraid about when letting Muslims in the country. Because since their faith is against homosexuality so intensely maybe we need to think twice before letting Muslims in the country.


No, it isn't. You do realize that there has been Islam in the US since before the time of the founding fathers, and they spoke favorably about Islam. You might as well say Catholics are culturally incompatible with American ideals, those are the people the influences of the founding fathers like John Locke actually had problems with. But we decided to tolerate the Catholics, leading to the first amendment.

Omar Mateen was an American citizen born in the USA (so the argument about immigrants is nonsense) and his culture was very much American. He didn't kill gay people because he was a muslim, but because he was an aggressive homophobe. Christians attack gay people in America all the time, far more often then muslims do. His attack wasn't done in the name of religion, it was done in the name of a right-wing militant group because man with anger problems.

Finally, islam doesn't actually have that much problems with homosexuality, not anymore than Christianity anyway (if anything there is more references condemning homosexuality in the bible than in the Quran). Homosexuality is not specifically labeled as haram by the Quran, just sodomy outside of marriage, which applies to heterosexual anal intercourse as well. The issue is that extremely conservative forms of Islam are being used as the standards for the islam in the media. And even if they were, we believe that people are allowed to believe whatever they want. Your attitude is in contradiction with the first amendment.

Shahunshah wrote:
redrobin62 wrote:
Omar Mateen - Orlando nightclub shooter - born in New Hyde Park, NY - American citizen
Syed Rizwan Farook - San Bernadino Mass Shooter - born Chicago, Illinois - American citizen
Nidal Hasan - Fort Hood Mass shooter - born Arlington County, Virginia - American citizen

All mass shooters with ancestors from foreign countries that Trump wants to ban immigration from.

Okay.

Tim McVeigh - Oklahoma City bomber - born Lockport, NY - American citizen
Adam Lanza - Sandy Hook mass shooter - born Exeter, New Hampshire - American citizen
Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold - Columbine mass shooters - born Witchita, Kansas & Lakewood, CO - American citizens
James Holmes - Aurora theater mass shooter - born San Diego, CA - American citizen

All mass shooters with ancestors from foreign countries. Should Trump ban immigration from the countries their ancestors are from, too?
And the man responsible for the Boston Marathon Bombing, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev came from overseas.

The thing is about Islam is that their religion in many ways is fundamentally even violently against the values held in Western society so when we let more of these people into the country they might cause harm. Think about this to yourself for a moment do you really want someone from Sudan or Saudi Arabia who favors the death penalty for homosexuals to immigrate to our society. I am not sure if I would since many of them hold the same dangerous beliefs that are prominent in their own society. And as we have seen in terror attacks their are chances some of these people will lash out.


Dzhokhar Tsarnaev also wasn't a Islamist, he was a political terrorist. You can't understand that isolated incident without understanding Chechnya's history, which they've been oppressed by the Russians for years, and he was a survivor of such violence.

Also, there is only a handful of Islamic countries that actually have the death penalty for homosexuality, and there are several Christian countries like Uganda which have the same law.

I don't want to argue with people, I actually am in agreement with. I for one argued extensively with my brother for why anti-Muslim rhetoric was wrong.

I simply don't like dismissing others as fools, their is a legitimate reason why someone would think their is a problem with Islam. Its like when you turn on the television one of the first things you may hear is about some terror attack that has taken place killing many lives plotted by Muslims. If religion was a motivation which in many ways it is, Then it is understandable not right for people to think Islam is a problem.



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17 Nov 2016, 1:24 am

Shahunshah wrote:
I simply don't like dismissing others as fools, their is a legitimate reason why someone would think their is a problem with Islam. Its like when you turn on the television one of the first things you may hear is about some terror attack that has taken place killing many lives plotted by Muslims. If religion was a motivation which in many ways it is, Then it is understandable not right for people to think Islam is a problem.


Of course I can understand their concerns. Their concerns are still ill-informed and irrational, and the proposed solutions are reprehensible and hateful.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:29 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:34 am

Ganondox wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


What's your problem? My time is valuable. Close and secure go hand and hand. I don't have time to argue trivial information.

NEXT!


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Last edited by nurseangela on 17 Nov 2016, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Nov 2016, 1:35 am

Shahunshah wrote:
I don't want to argue with people, I actually am in agreement with. I for one argued extensively with my brother for why anti-Muslim rhetoric was wrong.

I simply don't like dismissing others as fools, their is a legitimate reason why someone would think their is a problem with Islam. Its like when you turn on the television one of the first things you may hear is about some terror attack that has taken place killing many lives plotted by Muslims. If religion was a motivation which in many ways it is, Then it is understandable not right for people to think Islam is a problem.


Well fine, but even though they think so they are still wrong. And yes, it was wrong from me to call Sly, I've just been getting really impatient with people over this issue, and Sly in general over other things.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:37 am

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


What's your problem? My time is valuable. Close and secure go hand and hand. I don't have time to argue trivial information.

NEXT!


Yet you have time to ride on Trump's small hands. What's YOUR problem? It's not a trivial difference, it's a fundamental difference, and the fact you think it isn't shows you fundamentally don't understand what's even going on.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:40 am

Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


What's your problem? My time is valuable. Close and secure go hand and hand. I don't have time to argue trivial information.

NEXT!


Yet you have time to ride on Trump's small hands. What's YOUR problem? It's not a trivial difference, it's a fundamental difference, and the fact you think it isn't shows you fundamentally don't understand what's even going on.


You know what? I lived with a person like you all my life who always thought (and still does) that they were right. Let me tell you something......... come in a little closer cause what I have to tell you is really important.......

YOU'RE WRONG. How'd that feel? :mrgreen:

Now go bother someone else.


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17 Nov 2016, 1:49 am

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


What's your problem? My time is valuable. Close and secure go hand and hand. I don't have time to argue trivial information.

NEXT!


Yet you have time to ride on Trump's small hands. What's YOUR problem? It's not a trivial difference, it's a fundamental difference, and the fact you think it isn't shows you fundamentally don't understand what's even going on.


You know what? I lived with a person like you all my life who always thought (and still does) that they were right. Let me tell you something......... come in a little closet cause what I have to tell you is really important.......

YOU'RE WRONG. How'd that feel? :mrgreen:

Now go bother someone else.



Actually, I don't think I'm always right. It just seems that way when I talk to you because you are always wrong. :P Regarding this particular issue with border control, I'm much more informed about this than the average American because this type of stuff is my fathers job, he's a foreign officer and has now been appointed as consulate chief for a certain major African nation. The purpose of the consulate is everything related to this, determining who is allowed the United States and assisting American citizens abroad. Knowing the impact of America's borders is one of his chief responsibilities, and he teaches that to his children. The fact is you're just plain wrong, it's not a matter of opinion, but you won't accept that. No, I'm not going to go bother someone is, because your behavior is deplorable. Frankly you're the absolute rudest person I've encountered on wrongplanet who wasn't banned for trolling.


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AJisHere
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17 Nov 2016, 2:00 am

Ganondox wrote:
No, I'm not going to go bother someone is, because your behavior is deplorable. Frankly you're the absolute rudest person I've encountered on wrongplanet who wasn't banned for trolling.


Amen.


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17 Nov 2016, 2:19 am

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
This entire post is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of macroeconomics. You can't just produce homes and cars with debut, someone had to build it all. The debt is just a reflection of long-term production in the short-term. The fact America consumes a lot means America MUST be very productive. You simply can't consume without producing because on the macrolevel they are one and the same.

"Consumption" is not production.

If I buy a home this year, then that sale goes into the GDP.
If next year I sell, and someone else buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.
If another person buys that same home, that sale goes into the GDP.

One home could mean millions dollars of "GDP growth". Despite the home actually declining in value.


What part of "on the macrolevel" don't you understand? It's fundamentally different form microeconomics because it's a closed system. You can't use microeconomic arguments like an individual's actions for macroeconomics.

nurseangela wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Barchan wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
All that Obama and the Left has done is to separate the races even more than they were before. Great job! And that's another reason I voted for Trump - to Make America Great Again!! ! !

And yet, comments you've made in the past about Muslims gives me doubts that you've taken America's values of religious liberty to heart.


Actually right now, I believe we should deport illegals (I don't care what race or religion) and close the borders down to all immigration. Then Immigration can begin again in an orderly fashion once the borders are secure. So, no, not just Muslims. Does that make you happier?


You clearly know NOTHING about how immigration works. Shutting down out borders would devastate our country because on a day to day basis immigration is extremely important for our economy. It would be a human rights disaster because this would ruin the lives of countless people who need to travel across the border regularly. Finally it would just be the worst foreign policy disaster the US has ever had and it would make literally every other country hate the US. Shutting down the borders is about the absolute stupidest thing we could do.

(Also, how are we supposed to close down the borders if they aren't secure? If you shut down the borders ONLY illegal immigrants would enter the US)


I said when the borders are secure.

Do you know when all the Ebola stuff was going on, we were the only nation that didn't close our borders? All other countries have no problem closing their borders. We didn't even stop flights coming in from high risk zones. Nuts.


No, you didn't. You said the borders should be REOPENED once they are secure.

Pretty sure that Ebola claim is a blatant lie and I'm pretty sure I actually did international traveling during that time period. Unless you mean "only country with an ebola infestation" and that's because 1. the outbreak was relatively extremely small in the US and 2. the other countries weren't nearly as involved in the global economy as the US is.


What's your problem? My time is valuable. Close and secure go hand and hand. I don't have time to argue trivial information.

NEXT!
You seem to have quite a few good reasons for supporting Trump judging just from this issue. How did you learn about the open borders thing did you get that from personal experience or research you did?