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Real issues with Trump no hyperbole

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EzraS
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28 Jan 2017, 7:06 pm

Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Personally I usually try to view claims like a judge would and rule out anything that falls under such conditions as being circumstantial evidence, anecdotal evidence, hearsay, conjecture and speculation (not to mention mountains of sensationalism). It seems like most if not all the stuff I see people accusing him of falls into those categories. Plus a great number of things said against Trump have been by way of prognostication. Now if he's as bad as many claim, it shouldn't take much time now that he's in office for there to be solid evidence. So far I haven't seen any.

It's useless to offer you evidence, as, contrary at what you're saying, you're obviously biased in his favor and don't have the maturity to see it. But here are some proofs anyway.


It would have been nice if you could have been mature enough to present that without including condescending and incorrect personal attacks.



Last edited by EzraS on 28 Jan 2017, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jrjones9933
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28 Jan 2017, 7:20 pm

So the "Muslim Ban"

I've been listening to the analysis, and other than a big hunk of red meat for the base, it seems to serve no purpose. It isn't a Muslim ban at all, and doesn't ban travelers from Saudia Arabia. How do they skate every time? It also doesn't block people from countries with the majority of ISIS or Al Qaeda members worldwide. The legal basis for the document may be sound, but it doesn't mean what people think it means.

ISIS probably has already printed the leaflets characterizing this policy in their terms (imagine yourself writing such a pamphlet). Today, they will gleefully distribute them to all the college students who suddenly can't come, all the technical workers with green cards who can't come, and everybody who sees this and starts to think that maybe America does hate Muslims, after all.

According to one analysis, for years American foreign policy has been finding the balance between promoting American interests and promoting American values. Trump uniquely managed to damage both at once with this move.


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28 Jan 2017, 7:40 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
So the "Muslim Ban"

I've been listening to the analysis, and other than a big hunk of red meat for the base, it seems to serve no purpose. It isn't a Muslim ban at all, and doesn't ban travelers from Saudia Arabia. How do they skate every time? It also doesn't block people from countries with the majority of ISIS or Al Qaeda members worldwide. The legal basis for the document may be sound, but it doesn't mean what people think it means.

ISIS probably has already printed the leaflets characterizing this policy in their terms (imagine yourself writing such a pamphlet). Today, they will gleefully distribute them to all the college students who suddenly can't come, all the technical workers with green cards who can't come, and everybody who sees this and starts to think that maybe America does hate Muslims, after all.

According to one analysis, for years American foreign policy has been finding the balance between promoting American interests and promoting American values. Trump uniquely managed to damage both at once with this move.


Of all the countries that the Muslim ban covers, none of were where the 9/11 hijackers had hailed from. Trump just wants to satisfy the rabidly Islamophobic element of his supporters who fear and hate the desperate people fleeing from torture and murder at the hands of ISIS.


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jrjones9933
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28 Jan 2017, 7:41 pm

I forgot to mention that it will cause problems, and already has, for people who worked with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.


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kraftiekortie
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28 Jan 2017, 7:49 pm

Trump has banned ALL refugees for 120 days.



EzraS
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28 Jan 2017, 9:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
So the "Muslim Ban"

I've been listening to the analysis, and other than a big hunk of red meat for the base, it seems to serve no purpose. It isn't a Muslim ban at all, and doesn't ban travelers from Saudia Arabia. How do they skate every time? It also doesn't block people from countries with the majority of ISIS or Al Qaeda members worldwide. The legal basis for the document may be sound, but it doesn't mean what people think it means.

ISIS probably has already printed the leaflets characterizing this policy in their terms (imagine yourself writing such a pamphlet). Today, they will gleefully distribute them to all the college students who suddenly can't come, all the technical workers with green cards who can't come, and everybody who sees this and starts to think that maybe America does hate Muslims, after all.

According to one analysis, for years American foreign policy has been finding the balance between promoting American interests and promoting American values. Trump uniquely managed to damage both at once with this move.


Of all the countries that the Muslim ban covers, none of were where the 9/11 hijackers had hailed from. Trump just wants to satisfy the rabidly Islamophobic element of his supporters who fear and hate the desperate people fleeing from torture and murder at the hands of ISIS.


Or perhaps it's just an attempt at tightening up national security. I'm not saying I'm in favor of the action. But I personally don't see any reason to conclude it's being done for nefarious reasons.



jrjones9933
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28 Jan 2017, 9:12 pm

National security experts consider it both ineffective and harmful. The only positive effect seems to be more praise for Trump from his supporters.


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Kraichgauer
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28 Jan 2017, 9:16 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
So the "Muslim Ban"

I've been listening to the analysis, and other than a big hunk of red meat for the base, it seems to serve no purpose. It isn't a Muslim ban at all, and doesn't ban travelers from Saudia Arabia. How do they skate every time? It also doesn't block people from countries with the majority of ISIS or Al Qaeda members worldwide. The legal basis for the document may be sound, but it doesn't mean what people think it means.

ISIS probably has already printed the leaflets characterizing this policy in their terms (imagine yourself writing such a pamphlet). Today, they will gleefully distribute them to all the college students who suddenly can't come, all the technical workers with green cards who can't come, and everybody who sees this and starts to think that maybe America does hate Muslims, after all.

According to one analysis, for years American foreign policy has been finding the balance between promoting American interests and promoting American values. Trump uniquely managed to damage both at once with this move.


Of all the countries that the Muslim ban covers, none of were where the 9/11 hijackers had hailed from. Trump just wants to satisfy the rabidly Islamophobic element of his supporters who fear and hate the desperate people fleeing from torture and murder at the hands of ISIS.


Or perhaps it's just an attempt at tightening up national security. I'm not saying I'm in favor of the action. But I personally don't see any reason to conclude it's being done for nefarious reasons.


I didn't say there was any nefarious reason behind this ban, but rather it's inconsistent, and put in place solely to please the rabid Islamophobes who put Trump in the White House. There have been families broken up because of this policy, which is hardly fitting with the Republican brand of being for family values.


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adifferentname
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28 Jan 2017, 9:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
rabid Islamophobes who put Trump in the White House.


Citation needed.



Jacoby
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28 Jan 2017, 9:29 pm

6 of the 7 countries ban Jews fwiw



EzraS
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28 Jan 2017, 9:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Or perhaps it's just an attempt at tightening up national security. I'm not saying I'm in favor of the action. But I personally don't see any reason to conclude it's being done for nefarious reasons.


I didn't say there was any nefarious reason behind this ban, but rather it's inconsistent, and put in place solely to please the rabid Islamophobes who put Trump in the White House. There have been families broken up because of this policy, which is hardly fitting with the Republican brand of being for family values.


I personally would consider putting it in place solely to please rabid Islamophobes a nefarious reason.

adifferentname wrote:
Citation needed.


That would be helpful.



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28 Jan 2017, 10:11 pm

marshall wrote:
I meant the snorting cocaine part.


Cocaine would actually explain a lot about Trump, I mean the grandiosity, the impulsiveness, the late night tweets...

That, and I just like the image of him going all Scarface in the oval office with a giant pile of coke, it just seems appropriate.


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28 Jan 2017, 10:17 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
It stings because it sounds true.

I feel like the labels were and are justified, but it does seem like they backfired.


Scott Alexander over at Slate Star Codex made a pretty convincing case after the election that many of those accusations were overblown or created by taking Trump out of context, and he is not a fan of our new president:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/yo ... ying-wolf/

Incidentally, as someone who spends hours every day reading news sites and blogs out of a compulsive need to feel informed about the world, this blogger is one of the very few people I consider completely trustworthy, even when I disagree with his conclusions. You might try some of his articles that carry the 'politics' tag, definitely worth your time.


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EzraS
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28 Jan 2017, 11:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
marshall wrote:
I meant the snorting cocaine part.


Cocaine would actually explain a lot about Trump, I mean the grandiosity, the impulsiveness, the late night tweets...

That, and I just like the image of him going all Scarface in the oval office with a giant pile of coke, it just seems appropriate.




Kraichgauer
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29 Jan 2017, 12:11 am

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
rabid Islamophobes who put Trump in the White House.


Citation needed.


Eh?


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marshall
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29 Jan 2017, 4:17 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
I forgot to mention that it will cause problems, and already has, for people who worked with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is a horrible problem. If anything there needs to be exceptions for these people.