"It's not a Muslim ban! It's working out very nicely!"

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What other way is there to put it? That is pretty much what a refugee ban does, means more people trapped in war torn syria and surrounding areas, areas the U.S even bombs with their drone strikes.

At one time, the majority of people opposed gay marriage, but that has since become reversed.

Would you rather have SSI or give that money to refugees?

A lot of people have that misconception about the refugee program. They are not only ineligible for those benefits for many years, they get a bill for the plane tickets to their new home.

Just so you don't miss it. They get assigned to a place in the US; the State Dept. fronts the money for plane tickets for the whole family and then sends them a bill. They don't get to choose, but they get to pay.

Fox: Harley-Davidson says it’s not hosting President Trump’s visit on Thursday
Trump has cancelled the visit because of the protesters.

It costing the US taxpayer money somewhere a long the line and why don't you look up the stats for what % of these refugees are on public assistance when they do become eligible because refugees don't go back once they come here. The point I was making was more general then them directly correlating, do you think the US takes care of its own people good enough? Are you willing to sacrifice more? I'm not and I apologize if that makes me sound cold hearted but it's simply not the problem we should be focused on. Do you know over half of ISIS recruits in the US hail from one refugee group from one metropolitan area? Those being Somalian refugees in Minneapolis which Somalia is among the nations effected by the temporary travel ban. How have Somalian integrated in Minneapolis?

Refugees are not model immigrants more times than not, what dictates immigration to the US should be utility and the ability to assimiluate. If there is no utility and there is no chance of assimulation then they should go to another country.

45% of tech startups are begun by immigrants or the children of immigrants. Is that a good thing, or is it somehow part of the problem?

We don't lose from taking in immigrants and refugees. It's actually a great setup for a quasi-experiment, since there are lots of places that do and don't take refugees, and you can pair them up and compare likes with likes. Cities that take refugees have higher economic growth than similar cities that do not take them.

I don't know why people ignore the research that is out there, and insist that refugees are a burden to society. Speculation would probably be unhelpful.

Just like legal immigrants ≠ illegal immigrants, normal immigrants ≠ refugees. I think immigration should be determined by utility and their abiltity to assimulate. I am not opposed to taking any refugees but we should be very choosy, if they couldn't get in before then they probably shouldn't now. How many Nazi Germans did we take as refugees after the war? We're not obligated to help anyone besides our own citizens which our government fails at miserably.

Iraqi interpreters have risked their lives for US interests, whether they're entitled to be here or not, they've done more for this county than Trump, or you for that matter.

Do the Nazi war criminals whom we took in count as refugees? Same motivation.

Also, people act like any Trump vetting is better than Obama vetting, and it's pointless to argue. Don't let it remain an automatic assumption.

As we got reminded, Obama halted immigration similarly. TO FIX KNOWN PROBLEMS. He didn't automatically do a bad job of it! It just got repaired, and no evidence says it's broken.

I would join the military if I were allowed to but Uncle Sam only takes the finest NTs, this country let me down growing up so if I've done so little for this country then you are blaming the victim. All the better I suppose; we should of never been in Iraq, it was a pointless war where we wasted a lot of money and many many people died for no good reason at all.

Well Operation Paperclip did serve a utility...

There are problems with our vetting system, Trump is president and entitled to his own review of the policies which the FBI has said is insufficient. A pause really isn't that big of a deal, going nuclear and calling it a Muslim ban is a huge overreaction to something that is completely legal and with long precedent.

If we have a general ban on these countries, and make an exception for y, and y is the complement of x, then we ban x.
The two statements are equivalent:
We are banning everyone from Muslim majority countries except for religious minorities.
We are banning Muslims.

Math says it's a Muslim Ban. Edit: for a subset of Muslim majority countries only.

Second edit: There's another thing which bears mentioning. We give out regular visas based on population for different countries in regional baskets. As a result, in the mideast, Iranians have almost half of the regular visitor, student, scientific visas. Think about what you risk as an Iranian by visiting the US or studying here. They are basically writing and signing an espionage confession in the eyes of the Iranian counterintelligence agency. They are generally smart folks, and it is a very risky move to act at all friendly with the US. Now, we have screwed up their year, right when we want to cool things down with their country. It also gives the hardliners a bone to do whatever they want with.

Last edited by jrjones9933 on 31 Jan 2017, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I never liked the elitist way the military handled their recruiting process, for all the scrutiny most of what they get are wayward youths. Most people join for self improvement and the education, its a shame they close the door on so many people. I'm sorry about what I said earlier.

Ever since WW2 the U.S. has been engaged in "pointless wars". There is only one valid reason to bring the nation to the battle field and that is survival after being attacked.

Operation paperclip - 1000 former Nazis were given first class tickets and high paid jobs in the US military
I guess some terrorists are considered useful

And some like Kurt Waldheim became great international statesman