Basic Income should be a basic right

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RainbowUnion
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07 Mar 2018, 2:48 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

Ancient Rome was a horrible society, in spite of their technical achievements. Now, in most of the West, you've got the very same thing.

... in America perhaps.

Northern Europe seems to be heading in the right direction.

Northern Europe is becoming worse we are losing our civil rights and our governments are importing millions of people without consulting us.

Would those people you object to be Muslims, and you object to them for that reason? My understanding is that this was a major cause of Brexit.

Yes the Muslim immigration was a big cause but so was European immigration, the native population has to compete with them for housing, jobs and public services.

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 2:49 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

We have the most advanced technology ever. That doesn't make our society good. My measure of a good society is its HUMANISM and in that the West is one of the worst societies in the history of man.

Not everything should be MONEY MONEY MONEY ME ME ME. In the US, nobody gives a crap about the sick or the old, and if you have money, you are fine.

Sitting Bull was part of Buffalo Bills Wild West show during the latter part of his life. All he had to do was sit there and be Sitting Bull. While he was in NYC, what he saw DISGUSTED HIM. He was in the middle of what was even then clearly a mega city full of disgusting poverty and greed. His comment was "You people know how to make everything and distribute nothing". Among Native Americans, everyone in the tribe was cared for. The elderly were not in mortal terror of having nothing in their old age. No one was destitute unless the whole tribe was. And that's exactly how I think things should be.

Some Western countries are better than others. Europe certainly takes better care of its citizens than America does.

I will admit that America has a lot of problems, but I'm not sure if America is the worst country ever. The British Empire did more to brutalize people than America has ever done.

Perhaps America will become worse than the British Empire if America fails to stop global warming. We'll see.

The British Empire did a lot of bad and a Lot of good. America has done a lot of good and a few things bad. Europe takes care of it citizens by locking us up if we say something "offensive" especially if it challenges the government, it takes care of its citizens by inviting in millions of people without consulting its citizens.

Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 2:50 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

I'm 41, and I stand by what I posted. Most caring society HAHAHAHAHA what garbage. You've never had to live in the US, that much is clear to me.

First off the US is not the only western civilisation. Secondly if its so bad why do millions of people choose to move there? If its so bad why do you live there? What country would you prefer to live in?

People come here because Australia, Canada, and Western Europe are much harder to get into. I live here because I have little other choice.

Its a lot easier to get into Western Europe than America.

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07 Mar 2018, 2:52 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

This form of racism called "Noble savage" where you idealise a group of people as though they were not people. Native Americans killed people, enslaved people just like any other people.

I think that both of you are oversimplifying Native American history.

Some Native American communities had slaves, others did not.

The Native American groups which committed the greatest atrocities were the civilized groups like the Aztecs. In a hunter-gatherer society, slavery is basically impossible.

That's why the "noble savage" archetype exists in the first place. Hunter-gatherer societies tend to be free societies. In a hunter-gatherer society, you have a good chance of being killed by an animal, but you will almost never be killed by a member of your own tribe.

Quote:

I am assuming you are a child because only a child could not see the that the modern western world is the most caring society in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3

Quote:

Through most of history Slavery was legal it was the western world that made this illegal internationally whilst technically illegal there are still many countries that practice it a lot.

You are right about history, but slavery was nonexistent during prehistory.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the fight to end slavery was a global effort.

Additionally, many American companies still rely on Chinese slave labor.

Addionally, the Slavery that existed in the Americas during the Slave Era was the most brutal type of slavery that had ever existed in history.

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 2:53 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?

A nation has a right to defend its borders that's why Mexico has a wall on its southern border.

RainbowUnion
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07 Mar 2018, 2:55 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?

A nation has a right to defend its borders that's why Mexico has a wall on its southern border.

I'd like a world where we are all one "tribe". The US is a nation of immigrants so, WTF is the Statue of Liberty on vacation? My ancestors (Irish) suffered the same discrimination back in the 1840s, and its just as wrong now as it was then.

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07 Mar 2018, 2:59 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

Many people move to the West in order to escape the problems that America caused.

For example, ISIS often uses weapons that were left in Iraq during the American Invasion of Iraq.

Western governments are often brutal towards their own citizens ... though they save their harshest brutality for foreigners who challenge their power.

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 3:01 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

This form of racism called "Noble savage" where you idealise a group of people as though they were not people. Native Americans killed people, enslaved people just like any other people.

Quote:

I am assuming you are a child because only a child could not see the that the modern western world is the most caring society in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3

Quote:

Through most of history Slavery was legal it was the western world that made this illegal internationally whilst technically illegal there are still many countries that practice it a lot.

Yeah I probably did over simplify Native American society as did the person who originally brought them up. The reason we believe the transatlantic slave trade was most brutal is because its the most documented but that's not modern western civilisation anyway. We cannot know about Prehistoric history because its pre history. Ending slavery may have been a global effort to an extant but it was driven by the west and if not for the west would still probably exist openly.

Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 3:03 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?

A nation has a right to defend its borders that's why Mexico has a wall on its southern border.

I'd like to live in some magic utopia too but its not going to happen people are different and there will always be conflict. The US is a nation of immigrants but it still has the right to decide who comes into the country.

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07 Mar 2018, 3:07 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

What makes the west strong?

Resources and big-ass weapons.

Quote:

Law and order guaranteed rights, equality under the law.

What the Hell? What are you even talking about? This literally makes no sense at all.

The Catalonian anarchists during the Spanish Civil War had equality. They had freedom. They were crushed by Francisco Franco. Freedom doesn't automatically make a society strong. It only makes a society free.

Do you think I'm against order and equality? Those are standard leftist principles.

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If we throw this away Russia and China will have puppet dictators put in place and we will loose the vast majority of our freedoms.

Who wants to throw this away? Me?

Are you seriously implying that the West will be conquered if it adopts social democracy? I see no evidence of this.

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 3:08 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

All nations treat foreigners worse than their own people. America is the most powerful country is the history of the world power corrupts so yes it does some bad things but do you really think if Iraq/Russia/China had the level of power America had the world would be a better place? Look how they treat their own people now.

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07 Mar 2018, 3:12 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

RainbowUnion wrote:

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?

A nation has a right to defend its borders that's why Mexico has a wall on its southern border.

For the record, I don't think that Mexico should have that wall either.

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 3:16 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

What makes the west strong?

Resources and big-ass weapons.

Quote:

Law and order guaranteed rights, equality under the law.

Quote:

If we throw this away Russia and China will have puppet dictators put in place and we will loose the vast majority of our freedoms.

Who wants to throw this away? Me?

Are you seriously implying that the West will be conquered if it adopts social democracy? I see no evidence of this.

Leftists are not in favour of equality under the law they are in favour of using state violence to achieve their idea of equality.

Switzerland does not possess any natural resources or Nuclear weapons yet Pakistan does and Switzerland is stronger.

I don't really know about the Catalonia thing my point isn't that a small free nation can defeat a large unfree one my point is a country will be stronger the more free its people are as they will innovate more and economics is what makes countries strong in today's world.

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07 Mar 2018, 3:20 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

We cannot know about Prehistoric history because its pre history.

Slavery doesn't even make sense in a prehistoric society. How does that even make sense? The technology needed to confine a slave doesn't even exist yet.

Addionally, no modern hunter-gatherer society has slaves. Most modern-day hunter-gatherers are freedom-loving people who greatly respect liberty.

Quote:

Ending slavery may have been a global effort to an extant but it was driven by the west and if not for the west would still probably exist openly.

Don't give the West so much credit.

Human beings naturally desire freedom. That would have ended slavery without the help of the West.

During the Slave Era, there were frequent slave uprisings and this contributed to abolitionism. These slave uprisings didn't come from "Western values". They just came from a very human desire to be free.

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Daniel89
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07 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

We cannot know about Prehistoric history because its pre history.

Quote:

Ending slavery may have been a global effort to an extant but it was driven by the west and if not for the west would still probably exist openly.

Have you seen the slavery timeline and how late nations stopped openly enslaving people? The Emir of Qatar brought slaves to the Queens coronation.

DarthMetaKnight
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07 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

Daniel89 wrote:

I'd like to live in some magic utopia too but its not going to happen people are different and there will always be conflict.

People have more similarities than you might think. Culture molds us to an extent, but, deep down, we all have human nature.

Another Thing: During prehistory, human vs. nature conflicts were more common that human vs. human conflicts.

Most modern-day hunter-gatherer societies don't fight with other tribes that often, though they often have to deal with civilized societies that are trying to wipe them out.

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