What if Jews actually did control the world?

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Chronos
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29 Mar 2018, 3:54 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

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If you want an honest truth it would have been in the best interest of the Palestinians to incorporate into Israel early on. They would have had peace and prosperity and a higher standard of living.

That's a very naive thinking, Chronos, the Jewish state would surely doesn't want that demographic change, Arab israelis are already treated as second-class citizens, even if they are getting a good quality of life I doubt anyone would feel happy living as a second-class citizen.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... s-citizens

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 69,00.html

Let me give you a very good analogy: Women - Women before 50s may had a good quality of life, really, as long they got married, since their husbands had the role to provide them with money and everything they need. But why did women rebelled? What need was not being met (answer: full citizenship)? Because they obviously felt they were being treated as second-class citizens.

Had history gone differently and Palestinians welcomed the creation of Israel, what makes you think they would have been treated as second class citizens?

Concerning a two state solution, that probably is the only viable solution at this point but if the border must be militarized, is it really a solution? How do we defuse the negative sentiments?

The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Mar 2018, 4:03 pm

Chronos wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:

If you want an honest truth it would have been in the best interest of the Palestinians to incorporate into Israel early on. They would have had peace and prosperity and a higher standard of living.

They would need to be militarized by neutral forces for quite a time.

JohnPowell
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29 Mar 2018, 6:00 pm

Chronos wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Chronos wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Chronos wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Chronos wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

They bulldozed those homes because they were done without state approval, not because they care about the rights of the Palestinians. With the cases of bulldozing Palestinian homes, they do it because they want to build the racial colonies etc.

Exactly. They were built illegaly, supporting my claim. They bulldoze Israeli homes built illegally and they bulldoze Palestinian homes built illegally.

They also bulldoze homes of the families of accused terrorists/militants who have attacked or conspired against the state. So far these have been Palestinian homes but if some jewish Israeli sect started attacking Israel they would probably have their homes bulldozed as well.

I should point out, regardless of how the Israeli Palestinian conflict started and who is responsible, it would not have occurred in previous times because until recently in history it was considered perfectly acceptable to completely annihilate one's enemy and sell the survivors in to slavery. The ancestors of contemporary humanity would find the Israeli Palestinian situation absolutely insane given that Israel could theoretically wipe Palestinians out.

Anyway if the rest of the world turned their backs, Israel and Palestine would both try to annihilate one another I'm sure. It's a shame they can't get along.

JohnPowell wrote:

No it doesn't. Israel have no right to bulldoze any homes in land that is recognised occupied Palestinian land under International Law.

We can have our moral and ethical objections to things and deitize the concept of rights like authority figures but people who raze homes and people who blow themselvez up on buses and take innocent people along with them seem to disagree with us.

JohnPowell wrote:

They also have no right to do that but they are in good company by doing that. The only other two regimes that have done that was Iraq under Saddam and Nazi Germany.

Western countries routinely raze the homes of the poor but these individuals are not even afforded the respect of having their homes recognized as homes. Their possessions and important documents get tossed in the trash and they have to start all over with nothing. Ask ASS-P about it.

My point is, there are few atrocities and crimes against humanity that are unique. It's difficult to be original these days.

JohnPowell wrote:

Israel won't just wipe the Palestinians out because they still have to try to be seen as the victims. They want to make life such hell that the Palestinians just give up.

Haha. You are making it sound like it's some 50/50 battle. Israel has hundreds of nukes and gets $10 million a day from the US and is sold major weapons by the US and UK.

I think you have misinterpreted my post and I think you have done so because of you emotional bias on the issue. Please re-read and I will then clarify if necessary.

I am biased about justice. It might seem that way to you when you don't understand the subject.

Yet you have misinterpreted my comment. So how can we discuss if I say one thing and you take it as another and are content with this?

I will illustrate what I am talking about.

I said... wrote:

The ancestors of contemporary humanity would find the Israeli Palestinian situation absolutely insane given that Israel could theoretically wipe Palestinians out

But you seem to have overlooked this and said..

You said wrote:

You are making it sound like it's some 50/50 battle. Israel has hundreds of nukes and gets $10 million a day from the US and is sold major weapons by the US and UK

Do you see? I noted Israelis could destroy the Palestinians but your bias has blinded you to that.

How can we discuss if you are blind to that which I say and see instead that which feeds your emotions?

You said if the world turned their backs they would both try to wipe each other out. Only one side has the capability of doing that as you know. So you kind of contradicted yourself with the last sentence.

I did say try. One can try even when at a disadvantage. My comment was meant to reflect the sentiments of each side towards the other.

Though with the world watchingmost Israelis I have talked to have expressed that they just want Palestinians to leave them alone. What Palestinians want I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps their land back.

In any case even if the majority on both sides were to agree to peace the problem is the extremists on both sides. The extremist Israelis who think the entire region should be Israel, and the extremist Palestinians is saying the entire state of Israel should be destroyed.

If you want an honest truth it would have been in the best interest of the Palestinians to incorporate into Israel early on. They would have had peace and prosperity and a higher standard of living.

An ant could try to wipe me out.

Aww, Israelis just want to be left alone as they steal people's land and resources. They just want to be left alone as they treat people lower than sewage and make people's water into sewage and spray sewage at people's houses.

This isn't a "both sides" issue. The 'extremists' in Israel control the government and have serious clout in the US which has vetoed every chance of a solution.

That was never an option as Israel has always intended in taking everything.

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29 Mar 2018, 6:07 pm

Chronos wrote:

So would anyone like to offer any realistic solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Can you get them to stop hating each other? Can you get them to trust each other?

Did we ask these questions about apartheid South Africa? Or did people just work together to remove the regime and implement justice? Or did we pander to the racist regime and ask what they wanted?

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29 Mar 2018, 6:17 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Chronos wrote:

So would anyone like to offer any realistic solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Can you get them to stop hating each other? Can you get them to trust each other?

Did we ask these questions about apartheid South Africa? Or did people just work together to remove the regime and implement justice? Or did we pander to the racist regime and ask what they wanted?

For the record, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher did support apartheid South Africa.

Overall, I think that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the process of solving itself. The Israeli people are mad at Netanyahu for trying to force Orthodox Jews into the military.

Still, the US government is perpetuating the conflict in Palestine by financially supporting the tyrannical Israeli upper class.

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29 Mar 2018, 6:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

African Americans also refused to accept second class citizenship, and were denied the same quality of life. The difference between Black Americans and Palestinians is, black organizations largely depended on peaceful, passive resistance to gain success, whereas Palestinians have too often depended on violence and terror, which has gained them less than desirable results at best.

Rubbish. There were a ton of violent black organisations in old America. For example, the Black Panther Party was a revolutionary Maoist organisation.

Nowadays, we focus on MLK precisely because he was a peaceful man. There were violent Afro-American organisations, but we try to forget about them.

When the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is finally resolved, everyone will remember the peaceful protestors. Most people will forget that Hamas ever existed.

I said black protest was largely peaceful. And even the Black Panthers usually avoided trouble and violence if they could.[/quot

Palestinians have had it far worse for a start. If you want to make a comparison, then there's the native Americans, and they didn't go down peacefully. Black people in the US have had numerous Presidents carrying out actions for their rights. Every President since Kennedy has been focused on destroying the Palestinian people.

Despite the Israeli propaganda you posted the Palestinians have tried peaceful measures numerous times and have been met with violence and mass murder.

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29 Mar 2018, 6:22 pm

Chronos wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:

If you want an honest truth it would have been in the best interest of the Palestinians to incorporate into Israel early on. They would have had peace and prosperity and a higher standard of living.

Yeah. What a great idea. To welcome some mass murdering colonising terrorists and give them most of your land in the hope that they won't take the rest. Really? :roll:

Kraichgauer
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29 Mar 2018, 7:31 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Yes, Native Americans had in fact fought to the death. Sadly, it didn't get them anywhere. For those who tried the peaceful way, like Gary Spokane had, it still didn't work. They were boned if they did or if they didn't.

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JohnPowell
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29 Mar 2018, 9:03 pm

Ok Bill so you understand that. It is the same for the Palestinians. The difference is, this is happening now. Injustice can be stopped. We live in an age now where the truth can be spread very quickly and there is a chance to stop people dying whether it is moron Trump or puppet Obama in charge.

Chronos
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29 Mar 2018, 9:40 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Chronos wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:

If you want an honest truth it would have been in the best interest of the Palestinians to incorporate into Israel early on. They would have had peace and prosperity and a higher standard of living.

Yeah. What a great idea. To welcome some mass murdering colonising terrorists and give them most of your land in the hope that they won't take the rest. Really? :roll:

I think the historical facts are a little more complex than that but it's irrelevant to solving the conflict. There are almost 5 million Palestinians and almost 9 million Israelis and those people are going to stay there whether they or their parents or grandparents came from there, Jordan, or Germany and they need a way to get along.

Here is an interesting fact. A lot of people from that part of the world end up in this part of the world, both Israelis and Palestinians who are tired of having politics and warfare intrude upon their lives, and live peacefull side by side.

The misery of the many is often caused by the actions of the few.

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30 Mar 2018, 12:16 am

JohnPowell wrote:

As a matter of fact, I've expressed a great deal of sympathy for the Palestinian people. I just think the kleptocracy of the Palestinian Authority, and the violent fanatics of Hamas aren't help their people anymore than the Israelis are.
But trust me, I sincerely hope for the best for both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

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Pepe
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30 Mar 2018, 3:50 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Overall, I think that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the process of solving itself.

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30 Mar 2018, 9:41 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That's true that the triumph of the Black American Civil Rights movement was mainly due to a campaign of nonviolence.

However ...ever hear of an American named "George Washington"?

He freed the US from British colonialism not through nonviolence, but by leading a "local war of national liberation" (to use the twentieth century term) much like that of the Palestinians.

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30 Mar 2018, 9:57 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Yes, but the geography was completely different. America was never attached to Britain the same way Palestine is connected geographically to Israel. There was a huge ocean between the two lands that made making war unprofitable to Britain.

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Pepe
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01 Apr 2018, 5:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

America was never attached to Britain the same way Palestine is connected geographically to Israel.

And Israel and America are attached at the hip... :mrgreen:

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01 Apr 2018, 2:17 pm

Pepe wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

America was never attached to Britain the same way Palestine is connected geographically to Israel.

And Israel and America are attached at the hip... :mrgreen:

That's probably true.

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