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Pepe
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26 Jun 2020, 11:03 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
It is often: "Go woke, go broke."


It's "get woke, go broke". See also whatever is going on in the US comic book industry.


Well, you better inform these people:
Quote:


Quote:


Image

https://www.facebook.com/GoWokeGoBroke/

:wink:



Pepe
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26 Jun 2020, 11:23 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
It is often: "Go woke, go broke."


It's "get woke, go broke". See also whatever is going on in the US comic book industry.


Except, "get woke, go broke" is a fallacy, since businesses usually use it to actually get more business and it works.

People were saying this about the recent She-Ra reboot, where people could see it as more "woke" for its desexualised character designs, and inside the show it had a more racially diverse cast, lesbians, gays, women of different body shapes and a non-binary character that was referred to by the right pronouns. And She-Ra has been perfectly popular.

It is ridiculous when apparently getting woke just includes having a diverse cast of different races, sexualities, genders and other feminist markers. Sure things cam be poorly implemented by doing things like thoughtless tokens that might be nothing but their token as a character trait, but the "woke" people dislike that too.


Quote:
No one has said it explicitly yet, but this relentless pressure to reduce emissions appears to have been a significant factor in the disastrous safety failures of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, which resulted in two fatal crashes in the past year, claiming 346 lives. https://nypost.com/2019/10/23/devine-ec ... ty-issues/



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26 Jun 2020, 11:36 pm

Quote:
The rule ‘Get Woke, Go Broke’ holds true, but why?


Quote:
The advert, “We Believe: The Best Men Can Be” focussed on the idea that ‘toxic-masculinity’ would need to be dealt with. It showed men catcalling women, bullying and asked the question, “Is this the best a man can get? Is it?”.

Following the release of the advert Gillette and parent company, P & G received some support but also a significant amount of backlash. But, the rule proved true once again and P & G took a US $8 billion loss in the value of its 118-year-old shaving company. Although, the company blamed this loss on a strengthened US dollar and smaller market, but the backlash was obvious to anyone on social media or other similar platforms.

Another, similar, example is that of Handsome Her Café in Melbourne. The owners came up with a brilliant strategy that involved charging men an extra 18 cents to account for the so-called ‘gender pay gap’, as well as making sure women were the first to be seated. Unsurprisingly, the blatant sexism at the core of the Cafés policies didn’t actually help to increase revenue and the business closed down after just two years of operations. https://www.theunshackled.net/recourse/ ... e-but-why/



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26 Jun 2020, 11:55 pm

Magna wrote:
Your example reminds me of this:



:lol: :lol: :lol:



Bradleigh
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27 Jun 2020, 12:41 am

Pepe wrote:
Quote:
The rule ‘Get Woke, Go Broke’ holds true, but why?


Quote:
The advert, “We Believe: The Best Men Can Be” focussed on the idea that ‘toxic-masculinity’ would need to be dealt with. It showed men catcalling women, bullying and asked the question, “Is this the best a man can get? Is it?”.

Following the release of the advert Gillette and parent company, P & G received some support but also a significant amount of backlash. But, the rule proved true once again and P & G took a US $8 billion loss in the value of its 118-year-old shaving company. Although, the company blamed this loss on a strengthened US dollar and smaller market, but the backlash was obvious to anyone on social media or other similar platforms.

Another, similar, example is that of Handsome Her Café in Melbourne. The owners came up with a brilliant strategy that involved charging men an extra 18 cents to account for the so-called ‘gender pay gap’, as well as making sure women were the first to be seated. Unsurprisingly, the blatant sexism at the core of the Cafés policies didn’t actually help to increase revenue and the business closed down after just two years of operations. https://www.theunshackled.net/recourse/ ... e-but-why/



Huh, never heard of TheUnshuckled.net before, I wonder what I can find out about them.

From their About page:
Quote:
Our Misson
A new shadow has begun sweeping over the world, trying to hold us down. It’s now turning into an all-out assault on the freedoms we once took for granted with daily impunity
The Red Menace was once defeated, but its back in a new form. And this time, it’s stronger and much more pervasive. Not stronger in terms of military power, but stronger when it comes to infiltrating people’s minds, possessing people’s hearts and breaking their souls. The Western world, once the great beacon of freedom and liberty, is now facing an apocalyptic revolution. Its enemies go by many names: the progressive left, social justice warriors and the bearers of politician correctness and identity and victim politics. It is set to undermine what our civilization has worked for, from above and below, inside and out.
Formed in the Holy Year 2016 (aka the Current Year), The Unshackled aims to uphold and protect what made western civilization great, those ideas from conservative and libertarian and various other centre-right schools of thought. We will expose the activities of the various enemies and fightback against the advance against their ideas in the media, in politics and popular culture. Whether the issues are economic, social or cultural the Unshackled will fight to expose the truth and protect free thinking and free markets. We will not just expose the various arms of the left, we will tackle the corrupt ideologies within the right-wing that have led to parasitic institutions such as crony capitalism which has ruined the reputation and meaning of the original free market capitalism.
Every day ordinary people are being shackled and told what to think, what is wrong with them and the way they currently live is wrong When asked why he decided to have gender quotas in government, Justin Trudeau said, “Because it’s 2016”. Well. We agree. This is why we formed this website, because it’s 2016. Because this is an age of upheaval. It’s an era that threatens our freedoms, our advancement, and our existence.
We must win the war against the controllers of thought and actions. We must protect our world and our lives against mass surveillance, big government, political correctness, the nanny state and elites attempting to rule over ordinary people. We must uplift this world from the current Dark Age. We must swear to never let totalitarianism sweep the world again.
We are the Unshackled and we will break the chains of control.


Lol, it is an anti-SJW "news" site that is under a specific mission statement against progressives, which they think are aiming to destroy Western civilization. I bet that they believe in the Great Replacement. Hardly an unbiased news source.

But I will bite, lets see how specifically this article holds up. Indeed Gillette did seem to have a bad backlash to its ad campaign, seems like a lot of men, the main consumer, don't like the idea of toxic masculinity being pointed out, and received a bit of criticism for poor implementation. Birds of Prey also seemed to lose money, which does make the two examples this article starts out on as examples where the idea of get woke and go broke as true, but these are still only a couple cherry picked examples.

Here is an article that has a different point of view of how Birds of Prey measured.
https://medium.com/@thesamlenz/debunking-the-myth-of-get-woke-go-broke-5d2b4d40094e
Its point of view is the movie's problem was a mix of its silly title, bad taste from Suicide Squad and its rating. The article also provides the titles of several movies that were woke and did quite well, such as Get Out, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel.

There are plenty of success from "being woke", after all this has been Pride month, and there have been lot of companies advertising for it. They would not do that if there was no benefit.


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Brictoria
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27 Jun 2020, 1:06 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Also, didn't the Christian Crusades happen? Where they invaded Islamic controlled lands to rape and pillage them? The Christian religion has done plenty of awful things, most effectively been the extermination of people on lands to not fight back, and then convert them.


It's amazing how little they teach children these days:
Quote:
Byzantium had lost considerable territory to the invading Seljuk Turks. After years of chaos and civil war, the general Alexius Comnenus seized the Byzantine throne in 1081 and consolidated control over the remaining empire as Emperor Alexius I.

In 1095, Alexius sent envoys to Pope Urban II asking for mercenary troops from the West to help confront the Turkish threat. Though relations between Christians in the East and West had long been fractious, Alexius’s request came at a time when the situation was improving.

In November 1095, at the Council of Clermont in southern France, the Pope called on Western Christians to take up arms to aid the Byzantines and recapture the Holy Land from Muslim control. This marked the beginning of the Crusades.

Source: https://www.history.com/topics/middle-ages/crusades

AND:
Quote:
A new, even more serious threat arose in the form of Islam, founded by the prophet Muhammad in Mecca in 622. In 634, Muslim armies began their assault on the Byzantine Empire by storming into Syria.

By the end of the century, Byzantium would lose Syria, the Holy Land, Egypt and North Africa (among other territories) to Islamic forces.

https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-middle-east/byzantine-empire#section_4

An objective view of the history of the region would show that it was Christian territory which had been over-run by an Islamic army. The crusades may have been over "Islamic controlled lands", but only in as much as the Islamic armies had swept through previously, raping and pillaging land that had been Christian since the Roman times, and the Christians were simply trying to reclaim this land that had been stolen from them.

Sadly, there are too many people who prefer to look for the worst in others and lack the ability to research and confirm facts, perpetuating this sort of misinformation.



Bradleigh
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27 Jun 2020, 3:08 am

Brictoria wrote:
It's amazing how little they teach children these days:


I check those links, and they really do a number in just saying that Islam is evil and Crusades were nothing wrong. Its article on why Muslims see the crusades differently from Christianity feel a bit weird, is History.com reliable? The Wikipedia article for the channel/site says in the first part of criticism that it has a history of things like having a bias towards US history.

I am pretty sure that I have heard that the Crusades were bad. Like the whole thing that all the soldiers were told it was a just war because god was absolving them of sin. I am pretty sure that this is not a controversial opinion.

I am not even saying Islam is better than Christianity, they were both born from the same template anyway, that was why they consider the same places holy land. I will even say that many cultures with Islam as a main influence are awful places compared to those considered more of the West with more Christian influence. But I think it is dumb to discriminate against a person who happens to be Muslim, the kind of people that don't want to wear a mask because it thinks that it makes them look like a terrorist sex slave.

I can start talking about Christians killing suspected witches if we really need to prove that Christianity has done some evil and dumb things like most religions. The KKK is Christian.


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Wolfram87
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27 Jun 2020, 4:25 am

I think there's a bit of talking past eachother here. The crusades were bad in the sense that wars in general are bad, and particularly so in a time well before established rules of war. But they were defensive wars or wars of reclamation, a response to 400-odd years of ceding ground to muslim aggression.

If you can overlook the 300-esque narration, here's a seemingly decent overview of the first crusade:







tl:dw: everyone was in-fighting, then some new dudes converted to islam and joined the fighting. The Byzantine Emperor got nervous and asked the Pope for help. The pope went to France and rolled a Natural 20 on his performance check and the idea of Holy War went viral. THEN s**t got real.


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Brictoria
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27 Jun 2020, 4:28 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
It's amazing how little they teach children these days:


I check those links, and they really do a number in just saying that Islam is evil and Crusades were nothing wrong. Its article on why Muslims see the crusades differently from Christianity feel a bit weird, is History.com reliable? The Wikipedia article for the channel/site says in the first part of criticism that it has a history of things like having a bias towards US history.


I'm not sure how hard it is to check alternative sources, rather than asking if a site is reliable:
Quote:
Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land in the eastern Mediterranean, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories;

Source: https://www.britannica.com/event/Crusades

Quote:
The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The term refers especially to the Eastern Mediterranean campaigns in the period between 1096 and 1271 that had the objective of recovering the Holy Land from Islamic rule.

And
Quote:
After the foundation of the Islamic religion by Muhammad in the 7th century, Muslim Arabs conquered territory from the Indus in the east, across North Africa and Southern France to the Iberian Peninsula in the West, before political and religious fragmentation halted this expansion. Syria, Egypt, and North Africa were taken from the Byzantine Empire

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Do you need more, or does this answer your question regarding the reliability of the information?

Curiously, I noticed that you stated that you checked wikipedia to look up the original source so you could make a remark about the reliability of the source, yet you didn't think to look on that same site in order to see what it said about the actual topic of discussion? 8O

Bradleigh wrote:
The KKK is Christian.


And Al Qaeda is Islamic...Your point?

Are you saying we should judge the entirety of a group\country\religion based on the beliefs\actions of a small subset of the members? Or on past actions, basing your judgment on current knowledge\expectations\beliefs, rather than on what was known\expected\believed at that time in history?



Brictoria
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27 Jun 2020, 4:40 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
I think there's a bit of talking past eachother here. The crusades were bad in the sense that wars in general are bad, and particularly so in a time well before established rules of war. But they were defensive wars or wars of reclamation, a response to 400-odd years of ceding ground to muslim aggression.

If you can overlook the 300-esque narration, here's a seemingly decent overview of the first crusade:







tl:dw: everyone was in-fighting, then some new dudes converted to islam and joined the fighting. The Byzantine Emperor got nervous and asked the Pope for help. The pope went to France and rolled a Natural 20 on his performance check and the idea of Holy War went viral. THEN s**t got real.


Sadly, the left "teach" that the crusades were a case of evil Christianity deciding "let's go pick on those peaceful Islamic people and steal their land", ignoring all that led up to that point, in order to taint opinions. Neither side was "good", but the blame does not lie on only one side, as the left deceitfully try to portray.



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27 Jun 2020, 5:26 am

Brictoria wrote:
Are you saying we should judge the entirety of a group\country\religion based on the beliefs\actions of a small subset of the members? Or on past actions, basing your judgment on current knowledge\expectations\beliefs, rather than on what was known\expected\believed at that time in history?


That is the exact opposite of what I am saying. I don't know why you are saying this to me.


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Brictoria
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27 Jun 2020, 6:36 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Are you saying we should judge the entirety of a group\country\religion based on the beliefs\actions of a small subset of the members? Or on past actions, basing your judgment on current knowledge\expectations\beliefs, rather than on what was known\expected\believed at that time in history?


That is the exact opposite of what I am saying. I don't know why you are saying this to me.


The initial question you replied to was:
Bradleigh wrote:
RadioDog wrote:
Also, I'm always amazed at the brain-twist required to deny the regressive nature of the religion Islam, especially as if Islam was a race of brown skinned people, and not a racially and ethnically diverse religion. If the religion Christianity was guilty of even half as much, the "woke" people would have burned everything and everyone Christian to the ground, long ago.

Isn't Islam like the second largest religion in India? And I am pretty sure that there are several Asian countries that it is also very popular. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure they are not just of middle eastern decent. I can also find this whole article on African American Muslims.

Also, didn't the Christian Crusades happen? Where they invaded Islamic controlled lands to rape and pillage them? The Christian religion has done plenty of awful things, most effectively been the extermination of people on lands to not fight back, and then convert them.


Your responce to a question comparing the nature of one group to that of another, was to bring up historical aspects of the latter group in order to compare the 2, yet the statement in no way mentions any historical actions:
Quote:
nature
/ˈneɪtʃə/
noun
noun: nature; plural noun: natures

2.
the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities of something.


The statement you replied to talked of the nature of the religions, not the history of them, yet you brought up historical actions (in an intellectually deceptive way, making false assertions regarding the cause of the actions taken) as a defence for the "woke" practice of ignoring the current practices of a different religion.

This would indicate that you were judgng this group (Christianity) using past actions and basing your judgment on current knowledge\expectations\beliefs...Otherwise why bring up these past actions when asked about why "woke" "culture" ignores the current practices of a different group?

Or to put in simple terms:
Statement made:
Quote:
"the brain-twist required to deny the regressive nature of the religion Islam is amazing. If Christianity was guilty of even half as much, the "woke" people would have burned everything and everyone Christian to the ground, long ago."

(note: no mention of history, or the past, with this being contained within the present time.)
Response given by yourself:
Quote:
"But Christianity did X,Y,Z in the past..."

(indicating judgement of Christianity on past actions, using current standards as basis for this judgement.)

I hope this clears up why I made that statement.



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27 Jun 2020, 6:54 am

Also, the reason why Islam is the second largest religion in India is due to the hundreds of years of Mughal invasions. The relatively recent comment from Modi (who's insane in his own right, don't get me wrong) about muslims not being real Indians isn't because they aren't Hindu (Plenty of Buddhists and Sikhs and other faiths in India), but because muslims specifically are the descendants of invaders and conquerors.


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Bradleigh
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27 Jun 2020, 6:55 am

Brictoria wrote:
Quote:
"the brain-twist required to deny the regressive nature of the religion Islam is amazing. If Christianity was guilty of even half as much, the "woke" people would have burned everything and everyone Christian to the ground, long ago."

(note: no mention of history, or the past, with this being contained within the present time.)
Response given by yourself:
Quote:
"But Christianity did X,Y,Z in the past..."

(indicating judgement of Christianity on past actions, using current standards as basis for this judgement.)

I hope this clears up why I made that statement.


I am sorry if "long ago" is not history or the past to you. I guess that I have a lot to learn about the tenses.

I suppose your idea is that woke people would have burned down Christianity in the past for how it could be in the present.

And Christianity is not current innocent either. You don't think the American war hawks that want war into the middle east are not religious? You don't think a lot Christianity still teaches a lot of "hate the sin, not the sinner" teachings which up to recently meant a lot of torture of gay people. That there are a pretty large amount of Christians in starting some sort of holy war.

But we are not judging a whole people by a few examples, thus you should not judge people that are part of a religion just because of what you heard on Fox news or some other sort of propaganda piece.


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Bradleigh
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27 Jun 2020, 6:58 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Also, the reason why Islam is the second largest religion in India is due to the hundreds of years of Mughal invasions. The relatively recent comment from Modi (who's insane in his own right, don't get me wrong) about muslims not being real Indians isn't because they aren't Hindu (Plenty of Buddhists and Sikhs and other faiths in India), but because muslims specifically are the descendants of invaders and conquerors.


It is a good thing that Christians don't have a history of invading lands and exterminating the native populations. Like entire nations such as the USA and Australia, that had Christians come in to try and convert them and then taking over.


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Brictoria
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27 Jun 2020, 7:01 am

RadioDog wrote:
Also, I'm always amazed at the brain-twist required to deny the regressive nature of the religion Islam, especially as if Islam was a race of brown skinned people, and not a racially and ethnically diverse religion. If the religion Christianity was guilty of even half as much, the "woke" people would have burned everything and everyone Christian to the ground, long ago.

Lastly, I feel sad for the minorities/etc being "protected" - actually silenced and assimilated - by the "woke" movement. Anyone can and will claim to be anything - and then take over that identity and threaten any who speak back. E.g., black friends report that if they have any different opinion that "woke", she is told (by other "woke" black people even) that she is "mentally ill". Lesbian friends of mine say it's harder to be able to just go hang out with other lesbians any more, because so many lesbian groups/events have kept the name but changed to actually being trans groups. Both groups have also told me they have been physically threatened for their "thought crimes" and nonconformity to "woke" culture. So very scary for them, as well. One older gay friend told me it's a lot like when he had to be in the closet back in the 1960s for being gay - but now he has to be in the closet for not being "woke".


I would guess that it is because it is so much easier and safer to sit behind a keyboard, bullying people and companies into taking certain actions, and gives the "moral superiority" they need in order to feel satisfied\meaningful than to do something which exposes themselves to any type of risk.

If they really believed in what they claim to fight for, they would be going to the countries where females\lgbtiq...... are truely discriminated against and fight for the rights of them, not whine that a person can't use the bathroom they want to.

While they make such a tantrum about small, "safe" things, and do nothing about the much more serious issues around the world, it is impossible to take their claims of "caring" as anything other than "virtue signalling" to give themselves a sense of importance.