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funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2020, 4:49 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
Statistics show white people are more likely to be killed by police despite having less involvement than black people due to not committing as many crimes.


I'd be interested in seeing your source for this claim, I'm sure you're able to substantiate it.


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25 Sep 2020, 5:00 pm

Well as far as whether or not I should support BLM, it really depends on some things. For example, some of their demands and requests seem to not have anything to do with black people being killed by police. Such as some of their demands being they want all black people who have been convicted to be retried by a jury of their pears, and other demands like that.

Those things do not have anything to do with black people being unjustly killed by police, so it seems like they are wanting extra things other than wanting the killing to change.



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2020, 5:07 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well as far as whether or not I should support BLM, it really depends on some things. For example, some of their demands and requests seem to not have anything to do with black people being killed by police. Such as some of their demands being they want all black people who have been convicted to be retried by a jury of their pears, and other demands like that.

Those things do not have anything to do with black people being unjustly killed by police, so it seems like they are wanting extra things other than wanting the killing to change.


I'm not sure what the problem with wanting to ensure people who are currently incarcerated received fair trials. Further, generally when negotiating one asks for more than they are willing to settle for. In the long term that's not a goal that's likely to be conceded, but if they can lower the bar for ensuring people who were wrongfully convicted but have yet to be exonerated can pursue retrial that would count substantially towards that goal.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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25 Sep 2020, 5:08 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well as far as whether or not I should support BLM, it really depends on some things. For example, some of their demands and requests seem to not have anything to do with black people being killed by police. Such as some of their demands being they want all black people who have been convicted to be retried by a jury of their pears, and other demands like that.

Those things do not have anything to do with black people being unjustly killed by police, so it seems like they are wanting extra things other than wanting the killing to change.


Black people are also incarcerated at higher rates than others. BLM is trying to stop injustice in law enforcement and judicial systems, so it would also make sense to look at incarceration rates. I am not sure why you are surprised by this.



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25 Sep 2020, 5:17 pm

Oh okay, I didn't know about incarceration rates being different for black people in the U.S. However, demanding that they be retried seems like it wouldn't do anything, since people charged with crimes, almost never want to go trial and just take plea bargains anyway, so the government gave into this demand of BLM, and had all black convicts retried, wouldn't they just all take plea bargains again anyway, rather than face a trial, even if the trial was given to them by BLM?



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25 Sep 2020, 5:22 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I didn't know about incarceration rates being different for black people in the U.S. However, demanding that they be retried seems like it wouldn't do anything, since people charged with crimes, almost never want to go trial and just take plea bargains anyway, so the government gave into this demand of BLM, and had all black convicts retried, wouldn't they just all take plea bargains again anyway, rather than face a trial, even if the trial was given to them by BLM?


Are they trying to get the case retried or are they looking at the sentencing and get them re-sentenced? I really can't tell from your post what their policy is and how broad it is. So not only are Black people incarcerated at higher rates, their sentences are usually harsher. Perhaps looking at this on a larger picture than just narrow declarations would be easier.



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25 Sep 2020, 5:28 pm

I am not sure where I heard it but I can look. But the BLM demand was that all black people convicted of crimes to be given new trials. And I thought that the black convicts wouldn't take new trials and just want to plea bargain anyway. But that is how it was worded more or less. They said new trials, but did not say anything about sentencing from what I remember.



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25 Sep 2020, 6:15 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Statistics show white people are more likely to be killed by police despite having less involvement than black people due to not committing as many crimes.


I'd be interested in seeing your source for this claim, I'm sure you're able to substantiate it.


I've posted stuff before but it was always ignored so it's not worth my time. It's easy to find it from multiple sources doing a simple search if you're really interested.



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25 Sep 2020, 6:21 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I didn't know about incarceration rates being different for black people in the U.S. However, demanding that they be retried seems like it wouldn't do anything, since people charged with crimes, almost never want to go trial and just take plea bargains anyway, so the government gave into this demand of BLM, and had all black convicts retried, wouldn't they just all take plea bargains again anyway, rather than face a trial, even if the trial was given to them by BLM?


Are they trying to get the case retried or are they looking at the sentencing and get them re-sentenced? I really can't tell from your post what their policy is and how broad it is. So not only are Black people incarcerated at higher rates, their sentences are usually harsher. Perhaps looking at this on a larger picture than just narrow declarations would be easier.


ironpony wrote:
I am not sure where I heard it but I can look. But the BLM demand was that all black people convicted of crimes to be given new trials. And I thought that the black convicts wouldn't take new trials and just want to plea bargain anyway. But that is how it was worded more or less. They said new trials, but did not say anything about sentencing from what I remember.


The demand originated from CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle. Here's how they worded it:

"We demand a retrial of all People in Color currently serving a prison sentence for violent crime, by a jury of their peers in their community." https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the ... aee51d3e47

Of course, they don't mentioned the reason black people are tried by all white juries is because black people don't show up for jury duty. If it really were a big problem in the black community, they could easily solve it by showing up for jury duty when they're needed. Of course, it's easier to blame white people for "systemic racism".



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25 Sep 2020, 6:37 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
Of course, they don't mentioned the reason black people are tried by all white juries is because black people don't show up for jury duty. If it really were a big problem in the black community, they could easily solve it by showing up for jury duty when they're needed. Of course, it's easier to blame white people for "systemic racism".


Can you cite the source for that? As far as I know, you can't just not turn up for jury duty, you need to be excused. But anyway, a citation would be good supporting that claim.

Also, I think Blacks are underrepresented in Seattle's population:

Quote:
The racial composition of the city in 2016 was 65.7% white, 14.1% Asian, 7.0% Black, 0.4% Native American, 0.9% Pacific Islander, 2.3% from other races, and 5.6% from two or more races. 6.6% of the population is Hispanic or Latino of any race.



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25 Sep 2020, 6:42 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I didn't know about incarceration rates being different for black people in the U.S. However, demanding that they be retried seems like it wouldn't do anything, since people charged with crimes, almost never want to go trial and just take plea bargains anyway, so the government gave into this demand of BLM, and had all black convicts retried, wouldn't they just all take plea bargains again anyway, rather than face a trial, even if the trial was given to them by BLM?


Are they trying to get the case retried or are they looking at the sentencing and get them re-sentenced? I really can't tell from your post what their policy is and how broad it is. So not only are Black people incarcerated at higher rates, their sentences are usually harsher. Perhaps looking at this on a larger picture than just narrow declarations would be easier.


ironpony wrote:
I am not sure where I heard it but I can look. But the BLM demand was that all black people convicted of crimes to be given new trials. And I thought that the black convicts wouldn't take new trials and just want to plea bargain anyway. But that is how it was worded more or less. They said new trials, but did not say anything about sentencing from what I remember.


The demand originated from CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle. Here's how they worded it:

"We demand a retrial of all People in Color currently serving a prison sentence for violent crime, by a jury of their peers in their community." https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the ... aee51d3e47

Of course, they don't mentioned the reason black people are tried by all white juries is because black people don't show up for jury duty. If it really were a big problem in the black community, they could easily solve it by showing up for jury duty when they're needed. Of course, it's easier to blame white people for "systemic racism".


Oh okay. Why don't black people show up though? Wouldn't they not want to have white juries, if they do not like the idea of an all white jury, convicting a black person?



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25 Sep 2020, 7:43 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Statistics show white people are more likely to be killed by police despite having less involvement than black people due to not committing as many crimes.


I'd be interested in seeing your source for this claim, I'm sure you're able to substantiate it.


I've posted stuff before but it was always ignored so it's not worth my time. It's easy to find it from multiple sources doing a simple search if you're really interested.


I accept your concession. :wink:


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25 Sep 2020, 8:05 pm

This is America! Anybody can be whatever they want to be! Black folks can even join the KKK, now.


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25 Sep 2020, 8:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Statistics show white people are more likely to be killed by police despite having less involvement than black people due to not committing as many crimes.


I'd be interested in seeing your source for this claim, I'm sure you're able to substantiate it.


There is no source for that.
Emo needs to understand statistics. There are a lot more whites then blacks. So, his statement is like saying more whites are killed by police every year then Eskimos are killed by police.
Or is he just ignorant of the percentages?
"The rate of police shootings of Black Americans is much higher than any other ethnicity, at 30 per million people. This rate stands at 23 per million for Hispanics and 12 per million for Whites."
FROM
https://www.statista.com/statistics/112 ... nicity-us/
Please stop making up B.S!


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25 Sep 2020, 8:30 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
Statistics show white people are more likely to be killed by police despite having less involvement than black people due to not committing as many crimes.


Image

The figure shows that black Americans are killed at a proportionally higher rate than white Americans.
Black Americans account for:
24.7% of the deaths in 2017
26.4% of the deaths in 2018
29.3% of the deaths in 2019
26.9% of the deaths in 2020 so far whenever that data was collected

*Excluding the unknown race deaths
Obviously there is some error as there are nearly are between 100-~200 deaths of unknown race each year.

The population estimate for black Americans in 2019 was 13.4% of the total population. So black Americans are killed nearly twice as often as their population proportion would suggest based on this data.



emotrtkey
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25 Sep 2020, 8:48 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Of course, they don't mentioned the reason black people are tried by all white juries is because black people don't show up for jury duty. If it really were a big problem in the black community, they could easily solve it by showing up for jury duty when they're needed. Of course, it's easier to blame white people for "systemic racism".


Can you cite the source for that? As far as I know, you can't just not turn up for jury duty, you need to be excused. But anyway, a citation would be good supporting that claim.


I don't save sources for everything I researched but I'm sure you can find it online with a simple search. Although it's required, many places choose not to prosecute anyone who refuses.