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AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 8:58 am

Psalm 137 is against the sanctity of life? Since when? Again, out of context.

That psalm is a lament of exiles and is simply matter-of-fact about how the evils that the Babylonians executed on the Jews will be revisited on them. They will suffer the same fate as the Jews, and we can understand from context that it was the Babylonians who were happy to murder Jewish babies.

This never actually happened, of course, and the execution of God’s wrath on any group of people is conditional on their repentance. IIRC, the conquest of Babylon happened without any bloodshed. The Babylonians acting in obedience to God and setting the Jews free while submitting to Persian rule ended up saving their lives. The fate of Nineveh followed a similar pattern in that their response to Jonah ended in their salvation. Jonah from the outset did not understand that prophecies could be reversed, or he simply didn’t want anything good to come to Nineveh. So it was with the Babylonians. God is good. All the time.

Nice try. Rack ‘em up, let’s play again!

[Note: Accuse me of cherry-picking all you like, but trying to overwhelm someone with questions does not make you right about something. That, and saying I’m panicking over something when there’s nothing to panic about indicates you’re trying to win your argument through intimidation. That’s intellectually dishonest. So you can naturally expect that I will pick and choose things that are easiest to answer for the sake of the limited time I have for this kind of thing. I don’t believe that the Bible is wrong, therefore I feel no pressing need to defend it if doing so isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. I get a selfish pleasure out of tearing down attacks on scripture, especially baseless ones from people who are biased against it from the outset. I’m only having fun at this point. If you prefer to cut to the chase, then that’s fine with me. Otherwise, you leave the choice to my discretion. Can we agree that’s only fair?]



dorkseid
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12 Jul 2021, 11:45 am

Take any of the aforementioned passages and show them to any educated person who does not know they're from the Bible, and they would tell you they are all factually inaccurate. That's just the reality of the matter. There is no bias here.

Scientific models change as new information is discovered. Fair enough. But I'm confident that we've mastered counting below ten and fully understand the difference between the number 4 and the number 6. The passage clearly describes animals that have wings and four legs. Give me an example of such an animal. Go ahead! I'm waiting.

And you still haven't addressed the Bible saying that rabbit have split hoofs, bats are birds, or the earth not moving.

Explain to me how any context makes violently dashing children against stone okay. Even if this was retribution for the Babylonian persecution of the Hebrews, you cannot justify that children deserved this. Other translations of Psalms 137 use the word blessed in place of happy. In the Bible blessings can only be awarded by God and are always good. God did not carry through on his threats because the Babylonians bent the knee and submitted to his demands. There are plenty of other examples in the Bible in which God had no problem carrying out full-scale genocide against those who didn't fully submit to his tyranny. And you didn't address the other passages I quoted.

Besides, wasn't the point you were trying to make about the sanctity of life? Can you at least try to be a little consistent?

Just admit it, man: you're desperately grasping at straws.

Apologists always make these arguments, and they get eaten up by Christians desperate to rationalize away all the inconvenient facts about the Bible. But no person who was not already a Christian has ever been swayed by such arguments.

If you were having a similar discussion with a Muslim desperate to rationalize away all the errors in the Quran, you'd see how absurd and pathetic these desperate rationalizations actually are.



Last edited by dorkseid on 12 Jul 2021, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aghogday
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12 Jul 2021, 12:23 pm



True And THere is No Way to Loving Reconcile

One God Who Is All Merciful, All Forgiving,
Love Enemies, Turns the Other

Cheek As God And Self Same Who

Turns Around Both in Revelation And

Matthew And Burns Folks

Forever For

Not Complying

With Rules That Are Given;

That's "TRumP MeMe" Through and
Through With Imaginary Authority

That only A Real Fool Could Believe

in Who Actually Believes in the Other

Merciful, All Forgiving So-Called Man God...

Just Another Common Used Car Lemon;

A Sucker

Born

Every

Day Sadly

To Take the

Bait No Matter Sink or Swim Now...

Saddest Part oF all, Is some Folks Look

Forward To Their After Dirt Nap Reward

And Never Even Find Heaven Within on Earth Now...

Science Proves 'This Place' Exists in Terms of Autotelic

Flow and Frission That Takes A Great Work of Life Always

Now Open Minded; Never the Less So Much More Real Than A Place After

A Dirt Nap

Because

An Old Ghost Author(s)/Scribe(s) Antiquated

Poem of Non-Sense Verse Suggests It Exists...

Perhaps It Will Be Assessed As Art; Never the

Less, Now is All That Truly Exists... People Co-Create

Their Own Heaven And Hell And Purgatory on Earth And Sadly

Never Even Touch Who They Are For Real This Breath in Flow Fully Now...

Indeed

A KiNDeR

Way Whole

With Existence Now is Real...

Fearless Free oF ALL iLLuSoRY Fears...

Hehe, Just in Case 'Someone' Here Says
See If You Will Come up With A Better Way...

Jesus F

iN Christ

Facepalm

Ease WiTH SMiLes

Try KiNDNeSS For A Beginner, HAha...

Of Course Always Pursuing Greater Human Potential

In Change too; Oh That Damn Old Book At the Bottom

of the Ocean Still Now of Human Potential Still Coming...

i Surely See no 'Last Page' For me Breathing at Least in my 'Bible Play'..;)



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dorkseid
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12 Jul 2021, 1:15 pm

Have you ever seen one of those YouTube videos where someone approaches Christians and pretends they're reading from the Quran? The Christians express absolute shock and horror at what is being read to them. But then the presenter reveals that they were actually reading from the Bible all along. It traps Christians where they can't just make the usual rationalizations after they just admitted how horrific and immoral what they just heard actually was.



aghogday
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12 Jul 2021, 1:39 pm



Yes, The Harming, Raping, Maiming, Violent
Killing Ignorant Parts of the Quran And Bible Similar; Yet,

What i Took Most From 'the Video' Now Of

Folks Getting Read Those Parts of the Bible
Covered By The Quran For Reactions Same

Is As Demographics Studies Already Show

The Younger Generations See Greater

Overall, All the Way Through

Antiquated

And Dead Church

And Religion; Either It's

Gonna Change or Go Away...

There's A New Kid in Town; Freedom of Information

Trumping All Ignorance As Young People Are Seeing Life Differently...

We Can No Longer Compare
What Has Happened in
The Past to The

Future;

The Variables

Are Very Different

Now; More Different Than

Any Place in HiSToRY Before

As True We Are Getting HeRSToRY Now True too...

And Every Other View of Existence Still Imaginable;

Yet Guess What As Science Shows Social Cooperation

And Truly Love is All That Has Brought Us Here Overall, So Far...

That Much

We Share

And That Much

i Find As A Participant

Anthropology Observer

Who Gives And Shares Free

Verse Poetry With Folks Around

The Entire Globe A Religion of Love

Real When Core of Humanity Kind Now Still Real...

Yes, Of Course Among the Younger Female Generations Most...

That Stands To Reason/Feeling As Naturally Women Are More

Loving Nurturing

Human

Beings...

By
Scientific
Study of Course...

And They No Longer Are

As Trapped Out of Freedom (Schooling/

Working) Of Information And Communication too..:)



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AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 2:13 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Have you ever seen one of those YouTube videos where someone approaches Christians and pretends they're reading from the Quran? The Christians express absolute shock and horror at what is being read to them. But then the presenter reveals that they were actually reading from the Bible all along. It traps Christians where they can't just make the usual rationalizations after they just admitted how horrific and immoral what they just heard actually was.


Quote:
I wouldn't have expected that. I was raised Catholic.

:lol:

Catholics spend more time with catechesis that always seemed to me more tradition than actual scripture. It's the main thing Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism have in common. Catechism, Talmud, and whatever it is Moslems I have, I forget what it's called. There's nothing wrong with Christian denominations having a way to establish identity, but you almost don't even need the Bible if you're Catholic.

In all the time I worked for the parish, I had positive relationships with the priests. We (my wife and I) had one priest and a number of lay people tell us that we were more Catholic than those who'd been in the church since the day they were born. What I always found amusing was when someone would ask a catechesis teacher a question that would get her stumped, so one of us had to jump in and explain whatever it was. We're Baptists and we already knew this stuff. The priests were always impressed with how much we knew the Bible. There isn't as much impetus for Catholics to study scripture. I don't mean merely read it, I mean STUDY. You don't have to be a Greek or Hebrew scholar, just be aware that the translation you have is not THE Bible. I'm not an expert on dead, ancient languages, but it takes merely a matter of seconds to find an interlinear Bible online. Hilarious. Thanks for sharing that video.



AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 2:38 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Take any of the aforementioned passages and show them to any educated person who does not know they're from the Bible, and they would tell you they are all factually inaccurate. That's just the reality of the matter. There is no bias here.

Scientific models change as new information is discovered. Fair enough. But I'm confident that we've mastered counting below ten and fully understand the difference between the number 4 and the number 6. The passage clearly describes animals that have wings and four legs. Give me an example of such an animal. Go ahead! I'm waiting.

And you still haven't addressed the Bible saying that rabbit have split hoofs, bats are birds, or the earth not moving.

Explain to me how any context makes violently dashing children against stone okay. Even if this was retribution for the Babylonian persecution of the Hebrews, you cannot justify that children deserved this. Other translations of Psalms 137 use the word blessed in place of happy. In the Bible blessings can only be awarded by God and are always good. God did not carry through on his threats because the Babylonians bent the knee and submitted to his demands. There are plenty of other examples in the Bible in which God had no problem carrying out full-scale genocide against those who didn't fully submit to his tyranny. And you didn't address the other passages I quoted.

Besides, wasn't the point you were trying to make about the sanctity of life? Can you at least try to be a little consistent?

Just admit it, man: you're desperately grasping at straws.

Apologists always make these arguments, and they get eaten up by Christians desperate to rationalize away all the inconvenient facts about the Bible. But no person who was not already a Christian has ever been swayed by such arguments.

If you were having a similar discussion with a Muslim desperate to rationalize away all the errors in the Quran, you'd see how absurd and pathetic these desperate rationalizations actually are.

In other words, the truth or falsehood of something is relative to how it can be removed from context and intent and made to mean whatever we want it to to suit us. Got it. You have a strong dislike for intellectual honesty.

How about just pick ONE point? I sufficiently debunked two of your supposed Bible difficulties without even waiting for you to suggest something. I was ok with that. But if we're moving on to something else and you honestly want an answer, then let's focus on one "problem" at a time. It would help you if you dropped your bias for starters. But using intimidating language is inappropriate and doesn't magically make you right. If you are compelled to attempt to overwhelm someone, there's little that can actually be said. Tone things down a notch and pick a focus. I'll be much more willing to debunk whatever out-of-context nonsense you come up with at that point.

It's also interesting how removing scripture from context to express ideas that are not the intent of the writer or God fits the strawman argument pattern. Of course we understand things like genocide to be evil. Where does Jesus command Christians to go forth and slay all the unbelievers?



AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 2:53 pm

On the topic of context, I have [sarcasm=TRUE] incontrovertible PROOF that name-it-and-claim-it, blab-it-and-grab-it Prosperity Gospel the way to have everything you could ever want. It's IN THE FREAKIN BIBLE, so suck it, all you Kenneth Copeland haters! Here it is:

Luke 4:7 wrote:
If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (KJV)


:lol: :lol: :lol:



ToughDiamond
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12 Jul 2021, 4:02 pm

AngelRho wrote:
On the topic of context, I have [sarcasm=TRUE] incontrovertible PROOF that name-it-and-claim-it, blab-it-and-grab-it Prosperity Gospel the way to have everything you could ever want. It's IN THE FREAKIN BIBLE, so suck it, all you Kenneth Copeland haters! Here it is:

Luke 4:7 wrote:
If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (KJV)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, your post is as clear as mud to me. Are you saying you believe that Luke quote, or not?



aghogday
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12 Jul 2021, 4:28 pm



'The Absurdity of Christianity' is Obvious
For All Yet One Person in 'this Thread' on the
'Wrong Planet'; That's A Pretty Good Record Indicative

Of Folks Who Have Been Brought up in 'the Absurdity'
And Escaped too As True It Is also Easier to Do This if You

Aren't in Church And Successful In Social Bonding With Other

Humans Gaining the Oxytocin Warmth that Science Shows is Most
Definitely Anxiety Reducing; Therefore Negative Stress Reducing; And

Overall Healing Preventative Maintenance For Developing Disorder And Disease
Associated With Negative Stress of Course As Social Stress For Social Animals

Does Instinctually
Mean Potential

Starvation

For Being Outcast
For the Survival the
Village of Human Beings
Meant For So Very Many
Thousands of Years Before Technology
Assists Us to Live Much More Independently

At Home And Practically Isolated If We So Choose...

Hmm; Is that Good Religion; Well No, According to Science

A Worst Religion For A Human Being As Social Animal in Whole;

For We Lose Out on All The Benefits Of Communion of Love With Each

Other For One Day School Will End, and Work Will End, And Some of these

Folks of Retirement Age Like the Older Couple and Single Man of the Church

Crowd From a Different Protestant Church Sitting at the Table Next to Us at

The Chinese Restaurant Had a Whole Dinner Topic Conversation on The Horrible

Vaccinations And Hopes That the End the World is coming Any Day Now And Their

Savior is Gonna Take them to Heaven Without even Death and Destroy All Their Enemies

You Know,

The Pro Choice,
Transgender, and
the Rest of the Alphabet
Soup of Different of HumanKinD Now
For What They See Tiny Worlds NoW As
Prescribed By Their Religions Still Now;

Yet Again, How Tiny Is A World Behind
A Screen, Isolated in A Home With Never
Any Flesh and Blood Connection is That

Any Better Than Bound Together in Flesh and Blood
At A Chinese Restaurant Binding Over Conspiracy Theories;

That Indeed Now that The Delta Variant is in Town Killing Them Dead;

Never The less,

They Have

Hope in

Each Other And
The Warmth of Oxytocin
Shared over Shared Enemies

And Shared Heroes; One in Particular

Their Hugest Sugar Placebo Pill Jesus

At Essence of What They Believe Along with

All the Voodoo Nocebo Conspiracy Theories Beliefs

Too That May Kill Them Dead Sooner Than Soon too...

Yet Again

How Absurd

Is it to Sit in

Front of A Screen

For Hours only Moving

Fingers No More than 2 Feet
Away From A Screen; Nah, Baby

That Religion is Every Bit As Absurd

And Even More Absurd Than Christianity;

Might Not Seem That Way As Long as One Has
Some Human Connection at Work or School Yet

If Ya Wanna Experience

More than Dopamine

Stimulation

And a Bit
of an Adrenaline
High of Winging Some
Kind of Online Self-Professed
Competition; The Oxytocin Healing
Warmth For those Who Are Even Still Capable

of taking Advantage of all the Benefits of the Human
Love Drug May Be Lost Somewhere in A Screen of Colors;

For It's True, We Human Beings May Become Positively in Epigenetic
Way Wired For Healing Oxytocin Warm Or Negatively in Epigenetic Impact
Lose it too; For Whatever Sugar Pill Placebo or Voodoo Nocebo Effect Brings

Us to

Warm

Within

Or So Dam

Cold And Empty Within...

Truly Desperate Not Able to
Use my Eyes and Ears in Effective
Use with the Worst Known Pain Then

To Humankind As Every Sense And Feeling

Hurt in Both Pain and Numb Constantly, Wake

To Sleep For 66 Months, About 33 Months in i Came

to this Screen as it was Too Painful to Connect in Any Other Way

in the Flesh and Blood World; it Didn't Matter, if i Didn't have much
to Say Before or Not As Just Eye Contact Was Often Enough With A Smile
For A Warm Human Connection Handing out Shoes At A Bowling Center
For Almost 2 decades Before Trapped Behind A Desk At Work in Administration,
Information Technology Support, And Financial Management Along With Supervision then..

Gradually The Warm Human Communion Went Away; They don't tell you usually in School, or
Work, or Even Home or Church This is Possible if We Don't Exercise this Flesh and Blood Human
Connection Well; My Only Option Was to Bring Organic Feelings to my Words; More Than Likely

A Core Reason

Many Folks

Are Challenged

In Epigenetic Way

To Develop A Way of
Communication This Way
in Warmth Coming Out of
The Empty And Dark Within...

My Shell on the Beach Became
Essence in Words Living Again...

No Doubt Some of the Better Poetry,
The Loving Kind, in the Old Bible was
Mused by DarK This Way into LiGHT as

Well; Yet All the Other Personality Variations
Come into Play As Breathing Through All the Words
of the Ghost Authors And Scribes Who Actually Brought
The Words to Print; For Those Older People Sitting Next to Us

At The Chinese

Restaurant

Truly it Was

Their Only Hope

Together in Communion

To Keep Moving On Alive...

It's Like the 'Lord of The Rings';
That Song By The Great Rock and
Roll Band 'Styx' ; It Doesn't Matter So

Much What the Story Dances And Sings in Form
As Long As There Is Still Hope Enough Inspiration

To Breathe

For in this Case

For Those 3 Elder

Folks Next to me and
'Eve' in the Chinese Restaurant;

That's All They Had For Hope Together in Their
Life; "Lord of the Rings" Comes in Many Human
Clothes And Tools of CuLTuRE Through Words
And Statues of Old Venerated Heroes And Even Villains Same;

Never the Less,

It Is the Feelings

The Stories Bring

That Bond And Bind

Humans Together For

Hope To Keep Going on that
Count Most For Many Folks;

Could it Be Better,

Yes; No Way

i Could

Settle

For Something

As Shallow And Untrue;

Never the less, the Emotions, The
Feelings, And The Senses Are Defined
in Secular Terms of Words Like Autotelic
Flow and Frission By Science; The Essence

of the Human Experience, Never the Less is Similar..

Like What 'Sam Harris' Admits Will Be Found Similar
in A Gospel Singing, And A Rock Concert, Depending

on CuLTuRaL And Religious View Different Yet Essence Similar too...

Most of the Songs of the Catholic Church i Enjoy Singing Are Written

By Jesuit Priests Who Often Bypass The Dogma of All the Church; And It's
Obvious Some folks

Singing the

Songs Are

Being lifted

Up in Flow Ascending
Transcending in Transient
Hypo-Frontality As They Experience
Frission lifting Their Arms to the Ceiling
In A Kind of 'Kundalini Experience' Same of

Just letting Go

of Repressing

All Their

Emotions

Letting Go of All
Their Fears That
Are Illusory For At
Least A Few Moments
Truly Feeling Sensing
What Science Agrees is

The Sacred and Holy in Life
At Essence of Feeling and Sensing Life
At Peaks And Plateau Experiences of Meditative Autotelic Flow in Life;

Problem is Of Course, When Closed Minds Vault Someone Villain Like Trump
to the Top, Just Focusing on a Few Wedge Issues of Politics; Yet You See This Bonding
And Binding over DarK or LiGHt Same Leads to Group Think and Effort too as Caesar

Said in the

Newer Planet

of the Apes Movies,
"Apes Stronger Together";

Yep, The Mostly Hairless, And
Particularly Elder Human Apes Come

Out Together And Vote in Unison Most From Church...

Meanwhile, Some Folks Behind Screens Decide With Their
Own Ideologies That Voting is A Waste of Their Time; So,Whose

Religion Works

Best; the Religion

Of the Few or the

Many; WeLL iT DepEnds

On What One is Attempting to
Achieve in Life; i for one Take Both
Freedom of Mind And Body In Balance
And Freedom of HeART, SPiRiT, SoUL
Very Seriously As A Great Work of Art In Life...


i Worked Very Hard to Adjust to my Functional
Disabilities, to Create Words That At Least in Some
Countries, Women Will See As A Deepest Soul They've
Ever met; Hmm, True, Links Upon Demand For Proof, hAha...

It's Not Everyone's
Cup of Tea; Yet the

Meditative Warm Autotelic
Flow i Find Through Free
Verse Poetry Then Free Verse
Dance For HeART, SPiRiT SouL

Maintenance in Regulating Emotions
And Integrating Senses, Took A Total of
19 Life Threatening Disorders Away; Enough

For Life

To Feel and

Sense Like Heaven

Within Almost Always Now...

We Do What Works, We Survive
And Thrive At Best; For That Old Couple

And the Elder Man Who Was Brave Enough to
Admit he Got the Vaccination Cause he Wanted
to Live, Amongst The Other Two Who Were So Sure
All the Conspiracy Theories About Vaccinations are Correct;

No Matter What,

Church Was What

Kept Their Warmth

Alive No Matter That
Sizable Disagreement of
Nearer Sighted and Farther Sighted
Human Freedom And Safety Vision...

The Common Definition For What Bonds
Human Beings For Safety And Loving Freedoms
Is Religion; Some oF iT Works Better; Go Figure the Human

Condition,

Still Slowly

Progressing Outside

Of "Plato's Cave" Still Now...

Meh, i Just Change All the Words
in Church i Hear to Love And That's
Enough Whole Complete For me at Least...

Still Though, Never the Less, Ignorance Does
Harm, Rape, Maim, And Kill; And Education
A Pill That Works too in All Arenas Existence Now True..:)



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AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 5:13 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
On the topic of context, I have [sarcasm=TRUE] incontrovertible PROOF that name-it-and-claim-it, blab-it-and-grab-it Prosperity Gospel the way to have everything you could ever want. It's IN THE FREAKIN BIBLE, so suck it, all you Kenneth Copeland haters! Here it is:

Luke 4:7 wrote:
If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (KJV)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, your post is as clear as mud to me. Are you saying you believe that Luke quote, or not?

The point is you should look it up on your own for context. It's also meant as humor.

If you aren't familiar with prosperity gospel, it's a heretical spin on the idea that God grants health and wealth those who obey him. As a Biblical principle, it is demonstrably true that by obeying God and by pondering Proverbs and other wisdom writings, one can easily extrapolate honest ways of accumulating wealth. And it's not like it's some big secret. For most people it's just plain, common sense. I don't have a problem with the idea that God wants people to prosper. What makes it heretical is that p.g. preachers connect human creative power with the same unlimited power God has. According to p.g. God created the universe by speaking it into being. If God made man in his own image, and if like produces like in the animal kingdom, then that makes us of like nature with God. We are gods ourselves and have the same power of positive confession. We confess what it is we desire in Jesus' name and it appears. Simple as that. If you can name it, you can claim it.



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12 Jul 2021, 6:29 pm

AngelRho wrote:
The point is you should look it up on your own for context. It's also meant as humor.

If you aren't familiar with prosperity gospel, it's a heretical spin on the idea that God grants health and wealth those who obey him. As a Biblical principle, it is demonstrably true that by obeying God and by pondering Proverbs and other wisdom writings, one can easily extrapolate honest ways of accumulating wealth. And it's not like it's some big secret. For most people it's just plain, common sense. I don't have a problem with the idea that God wants people to prosper. What makes it heretical is that p.g. preachers connect human creative power with the same unlimited power God has. According to p.g. God created the universe by speaking it into being. If God made man in his own image, and if like produces like in the animal kingdom, then that makes us of like nature with God. We are gods ourselves and have the same power of positive confession. We confess what it is we desire in Jesus' name and it appears. Simple as that. If you can name it, you can claim it.

OK, so you're saying that anybody can get anything they want if they do the right incantations. Or are you just saying that's what some people think?



AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 8:42 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The point is you should look it up on your own for context. It's also meant as humor.

If you aren't familiar with prosperity gospel, it's a heretical spin on the idea that God grants health and wealth those who obey him. As a Biblical principle, it is demonstrably true that by obeying God and by pondering Proverbs and other wisdom writings, one can easily extrapolate honest ways of accumulating wealth. And it's not like it's some big secret. For most people it's just plain, common sense. I don't have a problem with the idea that God wants people to prosper. What makes it heretical is that p.g. preachers connect human creative power with the same unlimited power God has. According to p.g. God created the universe by speaking it into being. If God made man in his own image, and if like produces like in the animal kingdom, then that makes us of like nature with God. We are gods ourselves and have the same power of positive confession. We confess what it is we desire in Jesus' name and it appears. Simple as that. If you can name it, you can claim it.

OK, so you're saying that anybody can get anything they want if they do the right incantations. Or are you just saying that's what some people think?

Incantations? No, incantations/spell-casting are actually expressly forbidden in the Levitical laws.

But there are people who honestly believe they have the power to speak things into being. If God doesn't heal them from cancer, restore feeling and movement to paralyzed limbs, cure genetic diseases, or put a Maserati in your garage, it's because they don't have enough faith. And one way you can show God how much faith you have is by making a "donation" to [Name] Ministries, Inc. And for a limited time they'll send you a "prayer shawl" as a free gift and maybe a video series on DVD.

There's actually a secular equivalent--The Secret, and The Law of Attraction. Basically the same thing without pretending to be all churchy about it.



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12 Jul 2021, 8:55 pm

AngelRho wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Take any of the aforementioned passages and show them to any educated person who does not know they're from the Bible, and they would tell you they are all factually inaccurate. That's just the reality of the matter. There is no bias here.

Scientific models change as new information is discovered. Fair enough. But I'm confident that we've mastered counting below ten and fully understand the difference between the number 4 and the number 6. The passage clearly describes animals that have wings and four legs. Give me an example of such an animal. Go ahead! I'm waiting.

And you still haven't addressed the Bible saying that rabbit have split hoofs, bats are birds, or the earth not moving.

Explain to me how any context makes violently dashing children against stone okay. Even if this was retribution for the Babylonian persecution of the Hebrews, you cannot justify that children deserved this. Other translations of Psalms 137 use the word blessed in place of happy. In the Bible blessings can only be awarded by God and are always good. God did not carry through on his threats because the Babylonians bent the knee and submitted to his demands. There are plenty of other examples in the Bible in which God had no problem carrying out full-scale genocide against those who didn't fully submit to his tyranny. And you didn't address the other passages I quoted.

Besides, wasn't the point you were trying to make about the sanctity of life? Can you at least try to be a little consistent?

Just admit it, man: you're desperately grasping at straws.

Apologists always make these arguments, and they get eaten up by Christians desperate to rationalize away all the inconvenient facts about the Bible. But no person who was not already a Christian has ever been swayed by such arguments.

If you were having a similar discussion with a Muslim desperate to rationalize away all the errors in the Quran, you'd see how absurd and pathetic these desperate rationalizations actually are.

In other words, the truth or falsehood of something is relative to how it can be removed from context and intent and made to mean whatever we want it to to suit us. Got it. You have a strong dislike for intellectual honesty.

How about just pick ONE point? I sufficiently debunked two of your supposed Bible difficulties without even waiting for you to suggest something. I was ok with that. But if we're moving on to something else and you honestly want an answer, then let's focus on one "problem" at a time. It would help you if you dropped your bias for starters. But using intimidating language is inappropriate and doesn't magically make you right. If you are compelled to attempt to overwhelm someone, there's little that can actually be said. Tone things down a notch and pick a focus. I'll be much more willing to debunk whatever out-of-context nonsense you come up with at that point.

It's also interesting how removing scripture from context to express ideas that are not the intent of the writer or God fits the strawman argument pattern. Of course we understand things like genocide to be evil. Where does Jesus command Christians to go forth and slay all the unbelievers?


You didn't debunk anything. I already responded to your alleged rebuttals and demonstrated why they fail.

I'm still waiting for you to name an example of animal that has wings and four legs, by the way.

You want to pick just one subject? Okay, you can pick factual inaccuracies in the Bible or violence against children in the Bible. But you will have to actually give a convincing response. Something neither you or any apologist I'm aware of has ever accomplished.

If Jesus is God, and God is the author of the Bible, and the Bible says: "their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open"; then that is Jesus commanding his following to slaughter children and pregnant women.

Really, man. You come across like child desperate to convince himself Santa is real. You're just embarrassing yourself. Since you're clearly incapable of any rational analysis, I will no longer waste my time responding to your rants. The only person who's intellectually dishonest here is you.



Last edited by dorkseid on 12 Jul 2021, 9:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

dorkseid
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12 Jul 2021, 8:58 pm

Love how AngelRho brags about how a third of the world's population is Christian in one post, then decries that Catholics don't count as true Christians in the next. Even though Catholics make up 50% of the figure he was boasting about. :lol:



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12 Jul 2021, 9:10 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Incantations? No, incantations/spell-casting are actually expressly forbidden in the Levitical laws.

But there are people who honestly believe they have the power to speak things into being. If God doesn't heal them from cancer, restore feeling and movement to paralyzed limbs, cure genetic diseases, or put a Maserati in your garage, it's because they don't have enough faith. And one way you can show God how much faith you have is by making a "donation" to [Name] Ministries, Inc. And for a limited time they'll send you a "prayer shawl" as a free gift and maybe a video series on DVD.

There's actually a secular equivalent--The Secret, and The Law of Attraction. Basically the same thing without pretending to be all churchy about it.

I was probably abusing the term "incantations," meaning it to include the prayers and suchlike activities that lead to the magic (or more strictly, "miracles," I suppose, though I see no appreciable difference). I presume you think those "christian" practices are a con trick?