Abortion Rights On the Chopping Block

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if you think those hypocrites ain't gunning for griswold vs. connecticut next, i got a bridge i wanna sell ya

Well I don't feel aborting basically symbiote doesn't even have a brain yet is murder it is only a potential child at that point could even get destroyed by a miscarrige at that stage. Like for sure if me and my boyfriend had an accident we would do a morning after pill and if we didn't catch it that quick we'd go for an abortion right away and probably it would be removed before it even becomes a fetus. So that said most of those late term abortions some christian groups complain about are really more in the case of women who wanted a child but have complications that make an abortion nessisary. Most unwanted pregnancy abortions take place before the symbiote even becomes a fetus.

keeping women poor, subservient and pregnant/in perpetual child-care mode is the right-wing's cherished wish as a key mode of social control of half the population and preventing them from exercising their self-agency in pursuit of justice for all and not just for the privileged financially talented types. once that happens, we're in Gilead.

You're right about that, but yeah idk I had enough being forced to watch my siblings when my parents had stuff to do, I was not qualified....I was a kid to. But yeah even when I was 15 I had to take care of my youngest brother while my mom was at work cause she just left us kids at home but I was the oldest, so of course the other siblings did their best to not be around when I could use some help taking care of the baby. I hated every minute of it for the most part and well I also wasn't a good person to look after people so I didn't even know what I was doing aside from trying to make sure i changed his diapers and such so he could run around without poo in his pants and like if it was chilly making sure he had warmer clothes and such. I had enough with being in charge of my siblings I just don't want to deal with raising a kid. I didn't even like being a kid and now I don't want the responsibility of raising one. Perhaps someday we will get a cat or a french bulldog or both, but we don't want children.

i'm thankful that the fates did not thrust parenthood onto me, they would have been sorry had they any conscience.

I can barely take care of myself, no way I could take care of a kid....at best I could maybe handle another cat but cats are nice and they don't scream like babies and human toddlers usually.

The state attorney is a single mom. She had to raise her kids without her husband, all while launching her political career. Sooooo…yeah, she knows some things about motherhood.

Plus, Mississippi is a unique kind of place. Income is lowest in the nation, but so is the cost of living. There are all kinds of programs in place to keep people poor…erm, I mean, to support minorities and single mothers. When my wife and I were going through a tough time, we applied for a state program to help us keep our house. This was back in 2008. I’ve told this story before. We met all the criteria—below poverty line income, working but underemployed, etc. The first thing that happened was red tape, trying to get information from former employers who didn’t necessarily want to talk to us, getting papers from government offices who were too “busy” to help, on and on having to meet impossible deadlines, and then having to start the whole process over because one office or another wouldn’t talk to us. Once we DID get all of our paperwork in, the lady told my wife “you are white and you’re married. We’re not going to approve your application.”

We ended up homeless. And my point is that in Mississippi there are a number of programs that penalize families based on married status and race. They actually ASSUME that because you’re white you’re going to do ok, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

But if you’re black and a single mom, don’t bother with getting a job. You ain’t got time for all that, just stay home and take care of those babies. Staying on welfare long-term becomes a full-time job. What you find in places like the Mississippi Delta is you have all these second-generation welfare mommas, grandmother raises the kids, and mom goes to Valley State and becomes a social worker. They go their whole lives and never cross Highway 49 or the Yazoo River. Why would they? They have everything they ever need. It’s the garden of Eden down there. But if you don’t look like them and live like them, then they just tell you to get a job. A few of them go all redpill and become lawyers, which apparently isn’t that difficult either. You just need to be able to read and put words together in complete sentences—the rest is just being able to make a logical argument, and then it’s just a matter of taking out student loans. But for them, there are all kinds of grants and scholarships. If you’re white, they just tell you to get a babysitter. In fact, the counter argument is exactly that—white people can just get a babysitter, but they fail to take into account that black people in Mississippi have access to more programs than white folks, and whites can’t always get a babysitter. Oh, sure, we went that route. We had to let our babysitter go because we couldn’t afford her, and she ended up making a false report to DHS. That poor thing, she had people coming out of the woodwork to help her when she lost her mind, but we can’t get a babysitter because they’ll try to take our kids away. Sane, married, and white—scandalous! I keep looking for that white privilege everyone keeps talking about. But single, black moms become social workers. Their boys grow up to be lawyers and politicians.

And that’s where Mississippi’s lawyer actually does make a strong point. Being a single, black mom actually does empower women in Mississippi more than abortion does. I specify black women because in Mississippi, statistically, black women mainly get abortions, not white women, and the argument that abortion targets and harms black communities is a strong one. It is a fact that it does harm those communities, hence why not even liberal lawyers in Mississippi support women’s right to abortion.

The glaring flaw in all this is that a judge could ask why a woman should want to feel empowered by taking away abortion as an option. If not getting an abortion is so empowering for women, can’t they just have the freedom to have an abortion and then just decide to have babies anyway? And since Mississippi only has one abortion clinic and not THAT many women seeking an abortion, isn’t abortion pretty much over in Mississippi? So what does the Mississippi law really accomplish? That’s why I don’t think the Mississippi case is going to hold up well in the Supreme Court. You can claim that having babies in Mississippi is more empowering for black women, and you may be correct in saying so. But you do not have the right to force anyone to feel empowered. Some women may not care to be empowered, and that is their right. It’s weird that anyone would not want to be empowered, but that has to be their choice. I think what she wants to do is noble, but stronger arguments than that have hit the Supreme Court. Just because there is no NEED for something doesn’t mean a need exists to deny it.

Abortion kills people. At the end of the day, a living human being ends up dead. If you want to end abortion, THAT has to be the focus and nothing else. Someone ends up dead and there is no justification for it. Death row inmates spend DECADES in prison before they get the needle. American soldiers before going off to war are schooled in sensitivity, trained in strict rules of engagement, and charged with winning the hearts and minds of everyone they interact with in whatever country they occupy. If you confront an intruder and kill them while they are trying to run away, you could be charged with murder. Euthanasia and assisted suicide is a highly contentious issue in the US. Do unborn babies get mandatory appeals before they get aborted? Are women and doctors required to have sensitivity training towards the unborn and determine that babies are actually a threat to anyone’s life and safety, i.e. babies are trying to kill them? Are babies allowed the chance to escape on their own? Is it the subject of rigorous debate and allowed only when a consensus is reached that it should be allowed? It’s easy to judge a society that allows or denies a thing when you are part of a society that as a whole understands and agrees on an opposing view. But because you disagree with a thing doesn’t mean that society shouldn’t experience the same things yours did and come to its own conclusions. Your sincerely held beliefs could be the ones that are wrong. If America as a society intends to get rid of abortion, it must begin to view the unborn human life as human life and equal in every way. If there is ever a justification for killing another human being, that same justification exists for the life inside the womb just as much as outside.

Do I think abortion can be justified? Yes. Do I think abortion should always be allowed? No. Killing is allowed if and only if killing is justified, when it is necessary under that justification. So allow abortion if and only if it meets the same justification as any other killing. Preserving the life of the mother works.

It's a shame that some people still think that women's ownership over their own flesh is up for debate.

It IS a child, not a “potential” child. But I agree with you that chemical pregnancies and miscarriages do happen, and often happen when we don’t even know about it. I don’t LIKE the idea of destroying any new human life at any stage, but I’m more agreeable that if you can stop the implantation of an embryo then it really renders the abortion question moot. That’s a gray area, because if that counts as abortion and it is illegal, what about all the times my wife and I tried to conceive a child and didn’t? If her body rejects the fertilized egg, does that make her or us guilty of manslaughter? Where does it end if Plan B is considered abortion? Or the Pill? Or any b.c. method? What about condoms? Sperm is life, too. So, does what I do in the shower sometimes count as genocide? I mean, we’re talking about millions and millions of lives at stake here. At a certain point things get absurd. So I think it’s important to not simply say “life begins at conception” but to be clear in defining exactly what “at conception” means. Life does NOT begin at conception because, as I mentioned before, sperm and eggs are alive. It’s really about when you can consider something an individual human being. If it has made it as far as sustaining itself in the lining of the womb, I’d say that counts as something. The beauty of the Pill and Plan B is you never know if or when that ever happens, so you can’t say “hey, this person is a murderer.” You might assume that, but you can’t prove it. It’s possible to prove, but not practical to prove, and then you have to ask if a woman is a murderer if she and her husband are healthy, normal, tried to conceive, and didn’t. Was it because no sperm reached or penetrated an egg, because the egg was fertilized and didn’t survive long enough to be implanted, was implanted but didn’t survive, or something else? Is it the woman’s fault? So once everyone agrees on WHEN a thing is legally a person for the purpose of saying when someone could be prosecuted for killing it, then making arguments for or against abortion will less often be absurd. Does this qualify as self defense? Yes/no? Then the justification for abortion is the same. Tons of adult human beings annoy me, put my job security in question, threaten my lifestyle, and so on. I don’t get to abort them at the point of a gun. I don’t get to poison them to make them go away. And so once you make the connection between killing a threatening person and innocent person, it’s easy to see why it’s acceptable to allow abortions in some cases and not in others.

I hope you clean out the tub when you've shot your load in the shower. FFS!

You may be right. It looks very grim for abortion rights. Especially the Texas Law which grants a license to everyone to bring a SLAPP suit against providers and women who have had abortions. If Texas gets away with this, every State in Jesus Land will do the same thing.

LLAP \\//

At this point, North Korea is probably better than Texas.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. If you outlaw abortion, then everyone will just stop performing abortions /s

Apparently, two governors can play at the bounty hunter game, and it’s Abbott’s archnemesis no less.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/newsom-calls-for-assault-weapons-ban-modeled-after-texas-abortion-law/ar-AARJA34?ocid=uxbndlbing

(Personally, I prefer Hochul over Newsom)

Well it seems to me that you can still get an abortion as long as it's six weeks after pregnancy so that's a pretty big loophole in the law. So as long as it's six weeks, then you are good right? So why are so many people worried about this new law when they still have six weeks?

Because that can be too early to know if you're pregnant, or if you find out earlier it may still take time to schedule an abortion which could put it past the six weeks mark.