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Alex jones - hero, anti-hero or villain?

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Kraichgauer
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14 Jan 2022, 5:33 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or maybe he's just a POS, psycho snake oil salesman like the rest of us know he is.


There is no shortage of conspiracy theorists, like Rachael Maddow who pushed Russiagate on MSNBC for three years.


In fact, she was basing her reports on the Mueller report, which had found evidence of Russian collusion.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Jan 2022, 5:36 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The really sad thing is that some people will actually defend Alex Jones. 


Yup, I'll defend anyone who I think isn't being treated fairly, even if that person might be odious in some ways; I'm consistent like that.


Jones is being treated fairly. He's the same scumbag who tore into the hearts of grieving parents after their children were murdered, and more, encouraged his followers to harass said parents. Tell me, would you defend Maddow like that if she was being "treated unfairly?"


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VegetableMan
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14 Jan 2022, 5:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or maybe he's just a POS, psycho snake oil salesman like the rest of us know he is.


There is no shortage of conspiracy theorists, like Rachael Maddow who pushed Russiagate on MSNBC for three years.


In fact, she was basing her reports on the Mueller report, which had found evidence of Russian collusion.


Firstly, how could she have based her reports on the Mueller report in the beginning since the report had not been published until 2018?

Secondly, there is nothing in the report but a tiny amount of circumstantial evidence. I've read it, along with mutiple legal analyses of it. There is no evidence of Russian collusion.

Do you have any evidence that would prove me wrong? I'd love to see it.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Jan 2022, 6:03 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or maybe he's just a POS, psycho snake oil salesman like the rest of us know he is.


There is no shortage of conspiracy theorists, like Rachael Maddow who pushed Russiagate on MSNBC for three years.


In fact, she was basing her reports on the Mueller report, which had found evidence of Russian collusion.


Firstly, how could she have based her reports on the Mueller report in the beginning since the report had not been published until 2018?

Secondly, there is nothing in the report but a tiny amount of circumstantial evidence. I've read it, along with mutiple legal analyses of it. There is no evidence of Russian collusion.

Do you have any evidence that would prove me wrong? I'd love to see it.


Correct; I meant to say that the Mueller report confirmed what she had reported on, as had the congressional investigation leading to Trump's impeachment.
I suspect you could be taken back in a time machine to observe Trump's Russian involvement, and you'd say you didn't believe your lying eyes!


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VegetableMan
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14 Jan 2022, 6:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or maybe he's just a POS, psycho snake oil salesman like the rest of us know he is.


There is no shortage of conspiracy theorists, like Rachael Maddow who pushed Russiagate on MSNBC for three years.


In fact, she was basing her reports on the Mueller report, which had found evidence of Russian collusion.


Firstly, how could she have based her reports on the Mueller report in the beginning since the report had not been published until 2018?

Secondly, there is nothing in the report but a tiny amount of circumstantial evidence. I've read it, along with mutiple legal analyses of it. There is no evidence of Russian collusion.

Do you have any evidence that would prove me wrong? I'd love to see it.


Correct; I meant to say that the Mueller report confirmed what she had reported on, as had the congressional investigation leading to Trump's impeachment.
I suspect you could be taken back in a time machine to observe Trump's Russian involvement, and you'd say you didn't believe your lying eyes!


If empirical evidence was presented to prove that Trump colluded with Russia, I'd have no problem acknowledging it.

I don't dwell in your hyperpartisan political world. I tend to deal in facts, not conjecture.


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blitzkrieg
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14 Jan 2022, 6:19 pm

I like facts, too, VegetableMan, not feeling-derived, illogical falsehoods.

Alex Jones being parodied on the Howard Stern show.



Dox47
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14 Jan 2022, 7:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jones is being treated fairly.


How would you know? Because your preferred flavor of talking heads told you so?

Kraichgauer wrote:
He's the same scumbag who tore into the hearts of grieving parents after their children were murdered, and more, encouraged his followers to harass said parents.


And? I don't consider the emotional salience of the accusations to be terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy, quite the opposite in fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tell me, would you defend Maddow like that if she was being "treated unfairly?"


Yes, though in her case spreading conspiracy theories and propaganda has lead her to massive contracts and legions of sycophantic fans rather than lawsuits and scorn, so she doesn't seem to be in need of my assistance. Unlike you, I don't check which letter a person has next to their name before I evaluate facts, a principle you seem to have difficulty understanding.


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Dox47
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14 Jan 2022, 7:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I suspect you could be taken back in a time machine to observe Trump's Russian involvement, and you'd say you didn't believe your lying eyes!


This is textbook projection, assuming everyone else must be like you.


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14 Jan 2022, 7:50 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jones is being treated fairly.

How would you know? Because your preferred flavor of talking heads told you so?
.


You mean the "fake" mainstream news?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/us/p ... iracy.html

You do realise that people can think for themselves and can decide that AJ says outrageous things in order to attract a following right? It's not magic or rocket science to know he's rich because stirs the right wing pot.



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14 Jan 2022, 8:39 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
He's the same scumbag who tore into the hearts of grieving parents after their children were murdered, and more, encouraged his followers to harass said parents.


And? I don't consider the emotional salience of the accusations to be terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy,

Perhaps not "terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy," but, if indeed the accusations are false, then their "emotional salience" -- i.e., gratuitous cruelty -- is indeed a reflection on Alex Jones's character.

Dox47 wrote:
quite the opposite in fact.

Do you believe Alex Jones's claims about the parents? If so, why?


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14 Jan 2022, 8:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The really sad thing is that some people will actually defend Alex Jones.
Jones is being treated fairly. He's the same scumbag who tore into the hearts of grieving parents after their children were murdered, and more, encouraged his followers to harass said parents. . .
Alex Jones also shared his audience with Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes for over a decade as he spewed anti-government hate.  Thus, Alex Jones should be charged with being an accessory to Seditious Conspiracy in Trump's coup attempt on 2021-01-06.



Last edited by Fnord on 14 Jan 2022, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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14 Jan 2022, 8:45 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Perhaps not "terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy," but, if indeed the accusations are false, then their "emotional salience" -- i.e., gratuitous cruelty -- is indeed a reflection on Alex Jones's character.


Gratuitous cruelty toward the marginalised, vulnerable and weak aptly sums the modus operandi of nearly every right wing podcaster. They happily pocket the proceeds of such behaviour living in the lap of luxury and don't lose any sleep over their lack of a moral compass.



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14 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Perhaps not "terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy," but, if indeed the accusations are false, then their "emotional salience" -- i.e., gratuitous cruelty -- is indeed a reflection on Alex Jones's character.
Gratuitous cruelty toward the marginalised, vulnerable and weak aptly sums the modus operandi of nearly every right wing podcaster. They happily pocket the proceeds of such behaviour living in the lap of luxury and don't lose any sleep over their lack of a moral compass.
Without this as their business model, they would have to choose between honest work and homelessness.

However, because "honest" seems to be a concept beyond their mental grasp, they would be homeless bums.



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14 Jan 2022, 8:55 pm

The use of the word "honest" is ironic given most have been vocal in joining the Trump chorus of calling mainstream news "fake news". Some of these jokers aren't dumb, so they clearly know what they are doing.



Kraichgauer
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14 Jan 2022, 9:07 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jones is being treated fairly.


How would you know? Because your preferred flavor of talking heads told you so?

Kraichgauer wrote:
He's the same scumbag who tore into the hearts of grieving parents after their children were murdered, and more, encouraged his followers to harass said parents.


And? I don't consider the emotional salience of the accusations to be terribly helpful in determining their factual accuracy, quite the opposite in fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tell me, would you defend Maddow like that if she was being "treated unfairly?"


Yes, though in her case spreading conspiracy theories and propaganda has lead her to massive contracts and legions of sycophantic fans rather than lawsuits and scorn, so she doesn't seem to be in need of my assistance. Unlike you, I don't check which letter a person has next to their name before I evaluate facts, a principle you seem to have difficulty understanding.


Everything that has been reported about Jones - using his own words, in fact - shows he's treated properly for what he is.
There are no "talking heads" taking him out of context, because there is no other context to examine. The fact that he has a bunch of right wing crackpots threatening the parents of the Sandy Hook dead says he's been reported on by the mainstream media accurately.
How the F*CK else are you supposed to respond to a man who heartlessly denies the pain of grieving parents by claiming they are crisis actors, and that their children had never existed? Anger and moral outrage is the only response that any person with a shred of humanity can express.
If you say that's so about Maddow, I'm not going to argue the point. But a funny thing happens if you take the name "Rachel Maddow" out of your post, and inserted "Alex Jones," it would be describing him perfectly.


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14 Jan 2022, 9:11 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I like facts, too, VegetableMan, not feeling-derived, illogical falsehoods.

Alex Jones being parodied on the Howard Stern show.



Stern is a shock jock and comedian; I doubt anyone is going to take this seriously. It was pretty funny, though. :lol:


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