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goldfish21
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24 Jul 2023, 1:08 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
State appropriating property it thinks isn't being used properly: :(

State taxing the unimproved value of land to ensure valuable land is used effectively via market mechanisms: :)


This is nuts, IMO.

Vancouver taxes commercial properties for their “highest and best use,” resulting in tax bills for restaurants that have jumped a quarter Million dollars in a year, resulting in their closure over and over again.. for what ? :? For developers to build another condo building that very few people live in because most units are just safety deposit boxes in the sky for foreign money launderers ?? :roll:

Not exactly a flawless system.


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Fnord
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24 Jul 2023, 1:46 pm

Capitalism is not without its flaws; but Communism sucks all over.


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Joseph4
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26 Jul 2023, 4:55 pm

You appear to have a direct desire to impose your anti-communist beliefs? Why? I am interested to know what your motives are, and how it gratifies you?



Fnord
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26 Jul 2023, 6:38 pm

Joseph4 wrote:
You appear to have a direct desire to impose your anti-communist beliefs? Why? I am interested to know what your motives are, and how it gratifies you?
I am not providing you with the means to attack me.

Give it up, or read the 50,000+ posts I have already submitted on this website.


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Fnord
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26 Jul 2023, 6:48 pm

Based on suggestions from various sources, I have revised the original list.  But first, a few definitions.

The Different Forms of Communism:

• "True" Communists as proposed by Karl Marx cannot exist due to human nature (e.g., envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath).

• "Real" Communists are actually State Socialists currently living in Feudal Empires (e.g., China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam).

• "Faux" Communists (a.k.a., "Hypocrites", "Poseurs", and "Tankies") are those who preach Communism while enjoying all the benefits of living in Capitalist societies.

The Five Modern-Day Communist Countries:

• China (People's Republic of China)

• Cuba (Republic of Cuba)

• Laos (Lao People's Democratic Republic)

• North Korea (DPRK, Democratic People's Republic of Korea)

• Vietnam (Socialist Republic of Vietnam)

Nepal, Guyana, and Moldova have all had ruling communist parties in recent years.

Now the revised list:

•••

You May Be A Communist If You Believe . . .

. . . anyone engaging in subversive behavior is an Enemy of the State who should be tried, found guilty, arrested, and sent to a far-away labor camp . . . in that order.

. . . anyone having contact with or being related to anyone outside the State is engaging in subversive behavior.

. . . anyone moving about the country without permission of the State is engaging in subversive behavior.

. . . anyone practicing any form of religion without permission of the State is engaging in subversive behavior.

. . . arbitrary arrest and detention 'on suspicion' benefits the Common Good.

. . . artistic expression that does not glorify the State is subversive behavior.

. . . Capitalism is the most evil crime ever perpetrated upon humankind.

. . . Capitalists all became wealthy by stealing money that should have come to you.

. . . Capitalists all live in undeserved luxury without any cares in the world.

. . . competition for employment requires permission of the State.

. . . conspicuous consumption is subversive behavior.

. . . criticism of the Bureaucracy and/or the State is subversive behavior (e.g., Sedition).

. . . each individual must sacrifice his or her own aspirations and freedoms for the Common Good.

. . . everybody is equal; but you also believe that some people (e.g., the Bureaucratic Elite) are more 'equal' than others.

. . . everyone living outside the State is living in abject poverty and squalor, except for the Capitalists.

. . . everyone living outside the State wants to either become a citizen of the State, or wants to obliterate the State.

. . . exercising any form of personal privacy is subversive behavior

. . . exercising economic freedom is subversive behavior.

. . . in the abolition of any form of inheritance.

. . . in the forced conscription of agricultural 'armies', dedicated solely to the production of food for the State.

. . . in the forced conscription of infrastructural 'armies', dedicated solely to the installation, maintenance, and repair of bridges, roads, and public utilities for the State.

. . . in the forced conscription of industrial 'armies', dedicated solely to the production of material goods for the State.

. . . it is theft when someone else makes a profit from your labor, even though they pay you in wages that are mandated by law.

. . . opposition to the Bureaucracy and/or the State is subversive behavior (e.g., Sedition).

. . . personal property should be abolished -- that no one should own anything, including their bodies.

. . . pointing out any flaws in the Bureaucracy’s methods for running the State is subversive behavior (e.g., Sedition).

. . . seizure of all commercial and private financial assets by the State is both justifiable and natural.

. . . seizure of all means of commerce and production by the State is both justifiable and natural.

. . . speaking up for your civil rights is subversive behavior (e.g., Sedition).

. . . spying on your neighbors and denouncing them to the State for their suspicious and subversive behavior is your duty as a citizen.

. . . striving for the ‘Common Good’ applies equally to everybody, everywhere, all of the time, and without exception.

. . . suspicion alone is sufficient evidence to convict someone of being an Enemy of the State.

. . . the Bureaucracy is necessary to maintain the State, even though it is run by a self-perpetuating and self-serving Bureaucratic Elite.

. . . the State (e.g., the Bureaucracy) always knows best.

. . . the State (e.g., the Bureaucracy) should determine your profession and provide you with appropriate education.

. . . the State should have a monopoly on all banking.

. . . the State should own all buildings, the infrastructure, and every means of production.

. . . the State (e.g., the Bureaucracy) should set production goals for all goods and services.

. . . three or more people gathered together without State permission are engaging in subversive behavior.

. . . violent destruction of a Capitalist economy will automatically result in a workers’ paradise arising from the ashes.

. . . voting against any State-sanctioned initiative is subversive behavior.

. . . voting for anyone other than the State-sanctioned candidate is subversive behavior.

. . . you are entitled access to free clothing, free education, free food, free housing, and free medical care from the State (e.g., the Bureaucracy) even if it is all sub-standard; but you are willing to wait in line for days to receive any of it.


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Joseph4
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27 Jul 2023, 3:45 am

I don't wish to attack you, I am just interested in the psychology behind your efforts.



Fnord
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27 Jul 2023, 3:54 am

Stay on topic, please.


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Joseph4
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27 Jul 2023, 4:29 am

You enjoy status. You cited your 50k posts in the manner of someone who draws power from it, you enjoy having the last word, you enjoy making others feel lesser. This suggests a fragile ego. The quick win over others fills a gap, but that you keep doing it suggests you're avoiding something more important. If you are 66, probably it is too late the change.

However, you mentioned you ask questions. In the spirit of others who are more open minded and wish to understand the dimensions of communism, I am happy to take your questions. Please bear in mind, no more than 5 questions at a time. Please don't seek point scoring, cheap shots, ego pleasing traps, or bad faith closed questions to manoeuvre into your desired outcomes. I really cannot function in that style of communication, with my autistic disadvantage in this respect.



Weight Of Memory
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27 Jul 2023, 11:14 am

Fnord wrote:

The Different Forms of Communism:

• "True" Communists as proposed by Karl Marx cannot exist due to human nature (e.g., envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath).

• "Real" Communists are actually State Socialists currently living in Feudal Empires (e.g., China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam).

• "Faux" Communists (a.k.a., "Hypocrites", "Poseurs", and "Tankies") are those who preach Communism while enjoying all the benefits of living in Capitalist societies.


I would call the first group Idealistic Communists and the second Totalitarian Communists.

Tankies aren't communists; they're Putin sympathizers and thus fascists.

Marx predicted communism would overthrow capitalism from within so Faux Communists would seem to be Idealistic Communists.

I assume you're putting anarcho-communists under the third category? I'm referring to hippies and similar people who advocate for society to live in voluntary communes and want all higher forms of government to be abolished for being oppressive?



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27 Jul 2023, 7:51 pm

Weight Of Memory wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The Different Forms of Communism:

• "True" Communists as proposed by Karl Marx cannot exist due to human nature (e.g., envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath).

• "Real" Communists are actually State Socialists currently living in Feudal Empires (e.g., China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam).

• "Faux" Communists (a.k.a., "Hypocrites", "Poseurs", and "Tankies") are those who preach Communism while enjoying all the benefits of living in Capitalist societies.
I would call the first group Idealistic Communists and the second Totalitarian Communists.

Tankies aren't communists; they're Putin sympathizers and thus fascists.

Marx predicted communism would overthrow capitalism from within so Faux Communists would seem to be Idealistic Communists.

I assume you're putting anarcho-communists under the third category? I'm referring to hippies and similar people who advocate for society to live in voluntary communes and want all higher forms of government to be abolished for being oppressive?
The first group is more like Anarcho-Syndicalists, which would be the full embodiment of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

The second group is the reality of Communism -- it is what results when the revolution stagnates as the revolutionary leaders gain wealth by enslaving the masses under State Socialism.

The third group is as stated -- people who slam Capitalism while enjoying its benefits, and who would not even dream of emigrating to China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, or Vietnam even though they claim to be "Pro-Communist".  In simplest terms, they are hypocrites (e.g., "Do as I say, not as I do").

However, no matter how you look at it, True Communism can never be achieved.

Oh, and the term "Tankie" came about long before Putin came to power.


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28 Jul 2023, 3:24 am

Fnord wrote:
You May Be A Communist If You Believe . . .


Quote:
. . . anyone practicing any form of religion without permission of the State is engaging in subversive behavior.


California, COVID-time. They shut down the churches, supposedly over fear of germs, and prosecuted the church-goers, as in the days of the old U.S.S.R. The police had neighbors inform on the church's activities and report them.

Best place to live if you're a Communist is California. You can live for free there. It is paradise on Earth for a devotee of Lenin. Just set up camp on the sidewalk and grab whatever you need from local stores. Shoplifting is not considered worthy of police response in California. Los Angeles is particularly excellent and should be the #1 destination for all aspiring Communists, although San Francisco is a close second. Prosecutors in L.A. may drop charges no matter what you do, if you're a person of color that is. Your mileage may vary if you're not, depending on whether you have another identity card to play.


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28 Jul 2023, 3:33 am

Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is not without its flaws; but Communism sucks all over.


The thing I don't like about the flaws of capitalism is that nobody is allowed to fix them no matter how bad they get. Anyone who tries gets called a commie.


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Fnord
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28 Jul 2023, 3:54 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is not without its flaws; but Communism sucks all over.
The thing I don't like about the flaws of capitalism is that nobody is allowed to fix them no matter how bad they get. Anyone who tries gets called a commie.
Why fix them when you can adapt to them and exploit them?


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Aspiegaming
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28 Jul 2023, 6:24 am

Fnord wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is not without its flaws; but Communism sucks all over.
The thing I don't like about the flaws of capitalism is that nobody is allowed to fix them no matter how bad they get. Anyone who tries gets called a commie.
Why fix them when you can adapt to them and exploit them?


Capitalism promises so much like success and wealth. Corporate greed is a problem that can break these promises.

Here's an example and one that still stings to this day.
Activision, one of the biggest video game publishers in the world, made some record breaking profits several years back. In capitalism, that's good. When the company does well, everyone does well. When the company makes a lot of profit, that means the workers get pay raises. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Well, that's not what happened here. The company fired 800 employees and then the CEO gave himself a bigger bonus. Those employees, their blood sweat and tears that they gave to the company meant nothing in the end. Less people on the payroll means more money to give to those at the top as well as the shareholders.


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28 Jul 2023, 10:05 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Fnord wrote:
You May Be A Communist If You Believe . . .


Quote:
. . . anyone practicing any form of religion without permission of the State is engaging in subversive behavior.


California, COVID-time. They shut down the churches, supposedly over fear of germs, and prosecuted the church-goers, as in the days of the old U.S.S.R. The police had neighbors inform on the church's activities and report them.


They shut down churches for the same reason they shut down everything else: because there was a pandemic.

Trying to claim this was religious persecution is BS.



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28 Jul 2023, 10:16 am

We can debate what's fair until the end of time, but if your starting point isn't "What's fair for everyone involved?" you're going to have an uphill battle to convince me you're not a selfish, entitled scumbag.

Capitalism doesn't care about fairness. Capitalism is how can I enrich myself by maximizing profits. Capitalism is "successful" because a lot of humans, deep down inside, are sh***y people.

Nobody's goal in life should be to get rich. Nobody. Never. Getting rich should be a complete accident, leaving the person wondering how they can use that money to make the world a better place. Pursuit of wealth for its own sake is utterly hollow, done only by the soulless and the hopelessly insecure.