Is it WRONG to own guns, rifles, swords, knives, etc.?

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Exactly? Americans according to the statistics are that Americans more trusting than Australians and that we actually feel safer than Australians. Now, it might just be that Americans are more optimistic than Australians but America is very far from that war zone that you apparently think it is. Heck, there are even some statistics that seem to indicate that more Aussies become victims of crime than Americans. Crime victims Our murder rates might be higher, but still, the entire attitude presented seems ridiculous as most Americans are not murdered surprisingly enough.

As I understand it, australia had less conflict over ownership back in its colonial days. America was a greatly disputed territory, both with the indiginies and other groups of settlers. That probably added a certain impetus towards a more armed culture. Far as I know, australia also lacks many of the larger aggressive predators of the american continent, thus there is even less reason to be constantly armed, from a frontier point of view. Given that australian independece was much later than the american independence, they also seemed to have picked up much more of the UKs less gun-oriented policing techniques. Had british judicial process been more influential in american later history, they might be less gun oriented as well.

It also strikes me, in a mildly facetious way, that america lacked an empire. If british citizens wanted to go shoot people, they could just colonise somewhere and have at the natives for a bit, get it out of their systems. All the yanks had to shoot were each other and the locals. ;P

Ok, I am pissed now...

1/ The plural for Maori is MAORI - OK? and I would thank someone in Aussie not to include them in their idea of the indigenous.

2/ As someone part Koori and having seen the depredation that my brothers and sisters across the ditch endure I think it is a bit of a joke for any white Australian to feel hard done by or threatened.

3/ All the colonial and ex colonial states have the 'rugged individualist' as part of their national background along with hybrid vigor and histories of conflict with whichever peoples were the 'first nation' be it South Africa, Australia, Canada, Aotearoa or the USA. If this qualifies as the reasoning for the obsession with guns evident in the US how come none of the other counties mentioned share that obsession?

I think it is the sign of a factionalised and divided nation, this need to bear arms, I think that it is part of US culture to see the world in simplistic and dualistic, 'good guys/bad guys' terms, however this absolutist, 'winners and losers' mentality is exactly why the world at large feels more in danger from the US than anyone else. I am more likely to be killed by a US made bomb than a terrorist attack, the US is more likely to use it's nuclear arsenal than any other nation and in fact threatened 7 nations with 'pre-emptive' nuclear attacks in the wake of 9/11.
Do I think that average Joe citizens should 'bear' arms - no bloody way! let my government maintain an arsenal for our DEFENCE and our hunters have the arms they need to pursue their interest and let that be all, peace j

How about the freedom not to be held up by some trigger happy spastic just because they have the so-called right to own a gun? Obviously you don't care about that, because that is far important to me than an a***hole being permitted to pull a trigger at anything he likesI f you think that is ret*d, then there is no hope for you, because I would prefer not to have some moronic dickhead shove a gun in my face and try to rob me just because he can. Call me a hippy, I don't f*****g care, at least I'll still be around saying 'man, look at that dead guy over there. What did he do to piss those w*kers off?' Only a backward civilization would need something to 'guarantee' the 'right' to kill anything that moves, because of some paranoid threat. And only a backward civilization would guarantee suicide by proxy because of this f****d up amendment.

He just called us ret*d communists

Be careful, it would be better not to argue with him, he might just get us and shoot us and be pleased to have that "freedom".

RedHanrahan: sorry about that, but as I said I would feel much safer around them and our own than around a lot of others. And I referred to both our countries as Antipodeans because we are so close as neighbours that we are almost one. I don't feel threatened by them, I feel that they have been mistreated and things should be better. It's just that we were told the Maori were one of the original inhabitants of your fair country, as the aborigines were here. Hope that straightens things out a bit.

It really depends on how it settles into the culture. I do not think that most people would deny that the US is very individualistic though.
The US is not very deeply factionalized, divided, and we have had a strong desire for arms BEFORE any of the changes you speak of. The US does tend to see things in a very black and white manner, probably not so much winners and losers as good and evil though. I don't think that you are likely to be killed by either in all honesty, especially given the problems inherent in the US attacking first world nations and the possible retaliation. I would like to see the list of nations selected for the possible preemptive nuclear attacks. It likely does not include your nation.
Ok, I really might never even own or operate a gun anyway, it is not my personal issue. Technically, having hunters with weapons is giving them a right to bear arms, the question in the US is on where this ends.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 13 Sep 2007, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Because the US was formed by violently
overthrowing their oppressors, instead of
waiting to be granted their freedom?

Ok, we do have law enforcement. Technically, the US isn't dying underneath crime anyway so it is not as if we are killing ourselves, heck, Aussies have their own major crime problems as well. Really though, the US isn't backwards, our ideas disagree with yours however, we are still one of the most advanced nations in the world.

And someone brought up South Africa,
which has TERRIBLE crime statistics.

Yes, financially everyone relies upon America for trade, and the US currency is the at the base of every stockmarket transaction; and they have the biggest markets as far as film, TV, music etc are concerned. it was just that I don't consider the reliance on this amendment to be a forward step, simply because it seems to propagate violence by allowing weapons to be owned by anyone. It's the way people have taken it, and that's why it seems so backward to me. Especially in today's society.

Sorry but this isn't my ideal thinking of a good society, this isn't the way, to hand all people fire weapons to "defend themselves". Sounds pretty much like the survival of the fittness in a supposedly civilizased society.

Do you really think it is that simple? A lot of accidents happen because people are not smart enough and responsable enough with their judgement and decisions.

A neighbor of yours might get to your house and shoot you just because you were listening to loud music, but hey he has the freedom and the right to have access to a deadly weapon, doesn't he?

I would prefer to have a peaceful life and not living with fear that any person would kill me just for saying the wrong thing.

Last edited by greenblue on 13 Sep 2007, 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Advanced? Advancement is relative. What have you got thats light years ahead of anything say.. the japanese have got? Is your legal system that much more efficient than anyone elses? Your military might be bigger than most, but its hardly the most succesful, or elite, or particulaly better equipped technologically. I suspect advanced may be the wrong term here.

Not if it was my mother. Whore.

Ahhhh faart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries. Now, go away, or Ah'll taunt you a second tahmeh.



I'd really love to know which parts of your brain are overdeveloped and underdeveloped. Regard for others and altruism is almost certainly vestigial.



It'd be fine if the Yanks didn't have such a siege mentality and megalomania. Humility doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary.

Advancement is relative, and we are definitely more advanced than most other nations. I am not saying that we are necessarily the greatest 1st world nation, but that we cannot be left out of the group of 1st world nations. Our technology is actually relatively good though and we do have a good number of notable tech firms. Advanced isn't the wrong term at all.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 13 Sep 2007, 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.