Are you a Taoists ???

Post Reply New Topic

Well, I suppose you could do a search engine on the Tao, but, all I have is texts. Anything that is a poem is directly from the Tao. Not my words, but the Tao.

oooh i did a search, ive read about this before in a article talking about the differences between neo Buddhism and the more mainstream Chinese Buddhism though it was only mentioned briefly. i liked some of it, but its not for me. *shrugs*

change is the only thing that is constant

The person of superiour integrity
does not insist upon his integrity;
For this reason, he has integrity.
The person of inferiour integrity
never loses sight of his integrity;
For this reason, he lacks integrity.

The person of superiour integrity takes no action,
nor has he a purpose for acting.
The person of superiour humaneness takes action,
but has no purpose for acting.
The person of superiour righteousness takes action,
and has a purpose for acting.
The person of superiour etiquette takes action,
but others do not respond to him;
Whereupon he rolls up his sleeves
and coerces them.

Therefore,
When the Way is lost,
afterward comes integrity.
When integrity is lost,
afterward comes humaneness.
When humaneness is lost,
afterward comes righteousness.
When righteousness is lost,
afterward comes etiquette.

Now,
Etiquette is the attenuation of trustworthiness,
and the source of disorder.
Foreknowledge is but the blossomy ornament of the Way,
and the source of ignorance.

For this reason,
The great man resides in substance,
not in attenuation.
He resides in fruitful reality,
not in blossomy ornament.

Therefore,
He rejects the one and adopts the other.

Empty your mind of all thoughts.
Let your heart be at peace.
Watch the turmoil of beings,
but contemplate their return.

I want to learn to meditate, has anybody tried Taoist meditation?

I really love Thich Nhat Hanh's books- he is a zen monk who was a refugee from the vietnam war and set up social work universities and thought monks should be more active in engaging with human rights- he started "engaged buddhism" and the engaged buddhist network is well worth checking out- they do lots of good deeds and workshops and meetings. Thich has several monestries, one in US and one in france , the french one is called plum village (cant remember what the american one is called) but you can go on retreats there and hear him talk. He is on Utube so you can here him there- he has writen over 100 books and has meditation cds ect. his uk website is the comunity of interbeing but he probably has another one for US. His ideas of interbeing and compassion are great and out of all the religious stuff, psychology and buddhism Ive read I would definately rate him as the best. He says to use your bad feelings/ experiences for good like the gardener who uses his rubbish as compost to grow flowers- grow flowers from your rubbish- I love that! the lotus blossom grows out of the mud.

Sincere words are not beautiful,
Beautiful words are not sincere.
He is knows is not learned,
He who is learned does not know.
He who is good does not have much,
He who has much is not good.

The sage does not hoard.
The more he does for others,
the more he has himself;
The more he gives to others,
the more his own bounty increases.

Therefore,
The Way of heaven benefits but does not harm,
The Way of man acts but does not contend.

Heaven is long and earth is lasting.
Heaven and earth can be long and lasting
because they do not live for themselves.
Therefore,
They can be long-lived.

For this reason,
The sage
withdraws himself
but comes to the fore,
alienates himself
but is always present.

Is this not because he is free of private interests?
Therefore,
He can accomplish his private interests.

I love the extracts you posted, very beautiful, and your thoughts on Taoism. I agree and wish that I could remember that more often, the Taoist ideas... so often I get so stressed out over the stupidest little things and for so long, it takes up so much time and its really ridiculous. Taoism is a much more accepting and graceful attitute to take.

My experience with Taoism comes largely from the I Ching: The Book of Changes, which has given me the beautiful peices of Taoism perfectly relevent to certain times, questions or moments of my life when I have really needed it. It always comes back to helping you conduct your life, or see things in terms of the perspective of the Sage, who you mention in your quotes, as the ideal. I've always really loved this ideal because it says that withdrawl and 'decrease' is actually better than worldly increase or the A type attitute that is so pushed these days. I guess the difference between the I Ching and Tao Te Ching might be that the I Ching is also extremely practical in terms of addressing worldly concerns, partly too because of the Confusianism. It is a poetic fusion of Taoism and Confucianism. One of my favorite translations is by Taoist Master Alfred Huang, who wrote "The Complete I Ching" after a long imprisonment during the Maoist regime. The Wilhelm translation is also so great and has long been the gold standard for Western readings, half of the translation is online and its a very good one to go with: http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html
basically, for anyone new to this, you throw the pennies six times, and write your lines from the bottom up to form a hexagram, hht = ___ ___ (a broken line)
ttt = ___ ___ (a broken line, but a "six" meaning its a power line which has its own reading in the book)
tth = _________ (a straight line)
hhh = _________ (a straight line but a power line which means its a "nine" and has its own reading in the line section of book)

you can really get into the philosophy behind the hexagrams, they are very poetic as they all stand for a different kind of haiku like thing, like 'wind' or 'water' or 'mountain' etc...

Thank you for posting all those great passages

Thanks.

I once had a friend who used the I Ching exactly as you used it with the throwing of the coins to give you a fortune. He sort of burnt me from the I Ching because out of my fortune was a great appall. Well, he wasn't a true taoist, nor am I, but I tend to fantasize that one day I will seek greater knowledge about it. I appreciate the link.

I know what you mean. I’ve gotten a few really lousy ones as well. I don’t really see them as fortunes though, more like areas of departure to start your thinking process on whatever your having problems thinking through. Like if I ask, tell me how to relate best to this person, and I get a nasty reading, its not so much a bad omen but maybe I’ll just think about not being so defensive and so forth. By no means should it govern the decisions you make, I think it should just provide fodder for contemplation. Also it’s the book of changes, everything is always changing and ever-changing so nothing it says is ever set in stone, it always reminds us that the lines are always changing into eachother and everything changes as well into its opposite, so it may actually be good to get something like less good, it is more likely to transform into something positive later. Also a bad one, could just mean that situations or circumstances around you are in the process of changing. It is quite beautiful some of the writing in it, but I agree it can be really awful though, and sometimes its better not to get into the whole thing. Especially if your feeling down and then are further slammed by a spiritual source, that’s awful.

When I was a teenager, I considered myself a Taoist. Now I consider myself an Atheist. I now believe the I Ching is pseudo-science.

Yeah, I appreciate the I Ching for what it is, but I like to remain true to what Lao Tzu wrote. He holds my interest more than the others because his words are well-thought, poetic, and vague enough to be open to the individual's own interpretation. In the I Ching, though the message is change, there is too much reliance on cosmology, and I tend to find the "occurance of tea leaves floating in the cup" as just that; and nothing more. Fortune telling is neat. Heck, I have all the fortune cookie fortunes I ever had in my life in a cup in my room, but I just wanted to see if I could find tons of copies amongst them. And I did; I could go off on a weird tangent of coincidence, but I won't bore you...

Mentioning another good book to read if you are interested: The Art of War. Written by Sun Tzu, it's a small masterpiece, takes only an hour to read, and it pretty comprehensive on the rules of combat. I don't really think there was any relation between the authors of Tao Te Ching, and The Art of War, but these ultra-mundane gentlemen both had the congenital ability to internalize their surroundings and write about it quite articulately so that others could utilize their craft. It's a good time, believe me.

Your right. I have to get out the Lao Tzu book and read it again and just do a nice pure reading, without it being relevent to this or that etc... That really brings you back to the pure philosophy or message, without confusing it with other things I think. I like what you said about how his words are vague and poetic enough for the individiuals own interpretation, that it doesn't seem to force a set opinion like other thought systems often do - thats so true. Maybe thats why its accepted maybe a bit more than other things in this culture. Fortune telling is neat yes but it can be a trap, you don't want to get too dependent on it.

All the fortune cookie fortunes you've ever had in a cup in your room! I wish I'd done that! Did you recognize any kind of pattern of themes? Or was it all random. Random I guess, and there were repeats... Still it would be a great experiment if someone else also did it and you could compare what was the most commonly occuring theme or word and see if they are different and pertain to the differences in your life... oh there I go again with the fortune telling stuff. I think its just liking to find order and meaning in things.

My library has Art of War on tape, maybe I'll cheat and listen to the audiobook version. Thank you for reccomending it!

I don't know if the The Art of War would be one of those selected favorites to be listened to rather than to read. Your ears may fall asleep.